Mic recommendation (singer that doesn’t like headphones)

mrleon83

So the singer seems to get way better results when singing with monitors rather than headphones, any ideas what mic would be best? 

As far as dynamics, we have a sm58 and 57 , I’m pondering if an sm7 might be better as far as reducing the overspill, would that be right? Any suggestions greatly received 

Stuckfast

Male or female singer? And do they hold the mic, or use it on a stand?

You definitely won't get less spill on an SM7. A stage condenser mic might give you more pleasant sounding spill than a 57 or 58, but the main thing is to go with what works for the singer's voice. 

If the mic is on a stand there is a trick you can do to try to reduce spill. Record an extra take with the singer standing in place, but not singing. Then invert the polarity of that recording and use it alongside the take with the vocal performance. The spill should then largely cancel out. Obviously it only works if the mic is in exactly the same place for both takes. 

Musicwolf

The old trick is to use two monitors, equidistance apart from the mic, with the phase of the second speaker inverted (mono cue mix obviously).

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/tracking-vocals-without-headphones

Cirrus

There aren't that many variables you can control, really.

1; The polar pattern - get the monitor speakers into the null/nulls if you can

2; Once that's done, you've got the sound of the room - a small, reflective room will bounce the monitor mix back into the mic more than a larger, deader space.

3; Beyond that, it's just the relative volume of the monitor mix and the singer's voice. You want the singer to get close, like they'd use a live mic.

Quiet voice? Can't have the music as loud.

I've got a lot of experience of recording loud singers with speakers rather than headphones, and honestly spill has *never* been an issue - it's amazing how little you can hear if the singer is belting. You can have the music really loud in the room! I've done it with SM7s, RE20s, various condensers, even a ribbon mic.

The only caveat would be, don't put something loud and annoying in the monitor mix if you're unsure it'll make the final mix like a cowbell or whatever. And if you need a click to count the singer in to a cold start, ride it as needed and mute when unneeded.

edit; just remembered something I've done on occasion - if a voice is thin or dull or whatever, and I think I might be heavy handed with EQ, I've de-emphasised that end of the frequency spectrum in the monitors - eg if I'm going to add treble, I'll try to soften the monitor mix so the bleed isn't hissy post-processing. But you can only go so far, I wouldn't want the singer to have to perform to something that sounds weird. For the same reason, I'm not overly fond of inverting the phase of one speaker. (as opposed to recording a dummy take with both speakers inverted, which I've done once or twice)

mrleon83

Wow, all great suggestions! Thankyou

its a female singer, range is quite strong some soft some loud sung… I’ll have a play with positioning, some really great suggestions, thankyou so much! 

Musicwolf

And don't overlook the headphone over one ear approach.

Stuckfast

Musicwolf said:

The old trick is to use two monitors, equidistance apart from the mic, with the phase of the second speaker inverted (mono cue mix obviously).

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/tracking-vocals-without-headphones

The problem I have with this trick is that it tends to make the cue mix sound horrible!

thecolourbox

That's how they recorded Jeff Buckley's vocals for the Grace album I believe. He recorded his vocals in the control room without headphones - Google sends to suggest they had the normal monitors then an additional single speaker with the same mix but out of phase which cancelled off most of the spills

Sporky

You should be able to reduce spill by pointing the mic so that the monitor is in its least sensitive pickup direction. For cardioid that's directly behind the capsule. For supercardioid I think it's 255°off-axis.

Stuckfast

I think it's 135 degrees for supercardioid and 120 for hypercardioid, but don't quote me on that. You can't be more than 180 degrees off axis.

Sporky

Oops. I went past halfway. I think I meant 115°.

maltingsaudio

Coming from a live situation, you want to control spill and use wedges, have a look at the Audix OM7
https://microphonegeeks.com/audix-om-7-hypercardioid-microphone-review/

stickyfiddle

Hyper cardioid is great for minimising outside noise, but be aware they are inherently more sensitive to mic technique. 

I think we are assuming we’re talking about studio recording, not live - is that right? 

But also have they tried different headphones? Without wanting to sound obvious it’s the best solution in an ideal world, so good to get your singer comfy somehow - in-ears vs over-ear, etc might make a difference? 

mrleon83

Yes this is for studio recording, it’s actually my opinion that she delivers a better performance without headphones, she doesn’t mind .. and it’s for the louder more aggressive tracks, softer is perfect with cans and the condenser .. 

We could try with open back cans , so I might try that, the closed back (at50x‘s) are very closed so maybe that’s issue.

 

Stuckfast

At the end of the day you can worry too much about spill. The most important thing is that the singer delivers the best possible performance, and that the mic you use sounds at least decent on her voice. Unless there is a click track in the monitor mix, a bit of spill won't hurt. 

gregplaysasixstring

Sm7b is definitely what she wants.

I record artists every day using an sm7b as a lot of artists prefer to sing “in the room” and not overthink the performance. 

It’s not voodoo so the lower the speakers are the better and easier it will be to mix but sm7b can handle quite a lot of room noise without negatively impacting the recording. 

Things that do come through are things like a high metronome click so if you’re tracking like this avoid using the click or use a very soft and non melodic one.