Vocal mics

Snags

Band currently use some proper cheapo units in the grounds it doesn't matter if they get trashed (Behringer 8500, Samsung Q7 etc.).

Tone is fine, but they do tend to pick up a lot of spill as heard on PFL, so I've been wondering about better options with shorter range/ better rejection, without going nuts. Obviously SM58 is standard due to robustness, but I'm not convinced the pickup pattern is hugely better. Would Sennheiser E835/E845 do a better job at not putting crap into the desk between songs? At least two of the singers can get right on the mic, so don't need a lot of air coverage.

stickyfiddle

Look for super/hyper-cardioids for better side rejection. But be aware they’re also less forgiving of lazy technique because if you’re off axis they don’t pick up your voice as well 

Beta 58, E845 (not 835) are both that iirc.  If you want to spend a little more the Beyer M88 TG is phenomenal but also quite nice and I don’t lend it to others!

Stratavarious

I use a E945 hyper on smaller stages with close monitors.  Used both 845s and 835s at festivals - could not tell much difference.. all excellent..   The pattern diagrams let you know where to place monitors for super and hyper cardioids.    Check those angles first for what you have.

Also been very impressed with an SE v7 recently - not too expensive.  Nice that the surround is a polygon.. does not roll on tables!   It’s easily a match for my older SM58s.

Too much compression can exacerbate spill.

Danny1969

I use a Senn E945 and basically eat the mic while singing BV's .. that's a good mic if you get right on it. If you don't then the signal will fall right down. Mines compressed on the desk so the effect is less so, but that does raise the level of the drum spill. Cymbal spill does sound better through a Senn than a 58 though, as they don't seem to have the upper mid boost. I regularly mix  a band in the biggest ballroom at the Hilton on Park Lane (1200 ish guests ) and only mic the kick and toms. The snare and cymbals bleed into the E945 mics and sound fine through the PA

There's a lot of things to consider. Some people have such a loud voice you can use any mic and it's not a problem as the wanted signal is so large in amplitude compared to the spill. Other singers just cant get above the drum spill on a small stage unless you take a lot of measures to combat it. Draping the stage behind the drums and putting plexi shields around the drums etc. Overweight people block spill better because they have the size.

Cirrus

Original akg c12

ESBlonde

Beta 57a, I’ve even used them on drummer vocals.  Kiss the grill and keep the signal to noise ratio high. Use gates on backing vocals if you must/can and try to avoid pointing vocal mics at a drum kit/cymbals.

BenSirAmos

When I asked this question before, @maltingsaudio suggested an Audix OM7 as we play on small noisy stages. Not cheap but a step up from the Beta 58A I'd been using previously. Low gain. And the sound with the bass rolled off is exactly right for me and the other main singer. We will get one for the drummer soon as he is singing much more now.

HAL9000

E945 user here. Basically I have to be on axis or the sound drops right off. I can live with it but if I were buying again I’d get something that I don’t need to be right on top of.

maltingsaudio

Danny1969 said:

I use a Senn E945 and basically eat the mic while singing BV's .. that's a good mic if you get right on it. If you don't then the signal will fall right down. Mines compressed on the desk so the effect is less so, but that does raise the level of the drum spill. 

How much make up gain do you add after the compressor @Danny1969 ? I’m sure you realise but it’s that bit which makes the mic far more sensitive ergo more spill, 

Danny1969

maltingsaudio said:

Danny1969 said:

I use a Senn E945 and basically eat the mic while singing BV's .. that's a good mic if you get right on it. If you don't then the signal will fall right down. Mines compressed on the desk so the effect is less so, but that does raise the level of the drum spill. 

How much make up gain do you add after the compressor @Danny1969 ? I’m sure you realise but it’s that bit which makes the mic far more sensitive ergo more spill, 

Well I guess it's the threshold really and the ratio. If the threshold is too low then anything above it will be compressed to the ratio and that will give the effect the vocal is not much louder than the spill. The spill hasn't come up in level, it's just the vocal has been squashed down so now the spill seems louder. Any gain after that can't influence that balance between wanted vocal and spill, only make the whole thing louder. Unless there's a feedback loop  / special compressor etc.

But before it gets to that it's the level of vocal going into the mic versus the drums. That is completely dependent on the individual singer. The lead vocalist in one of my bands, Superheroes has such a loud voice that he regularly gigs small venues with just a guitar. No mic or PA at all !   ... on him our FOH engineer can get away with quite extreme compression settings. With me I have to eat the mic and he has to use a lower ratio, slower attack and higher threshold.

Working as FOH I get to mix in some nice large rooms but as it's all award shows mainly so the stage is wide but not deep. These stages are designed for winners to be lined from left to right and photographed, they don't have enough depth for bands. This means I mix 3 singers stood 1 to 2 meters from a drum kit. There's no stopping the spill in the lead vocal as he's closest to the drums and I need his mic up all the time. But the other two,  I can drop their vocals and only push them up when they get close to the mic for BV's .. That makes a big difference.

ScreamingDave

As usual, there’s a bit if mission creep here, where the cost of recommendations gradually goes up and up. 

If you’re wanting to stick with the budget end of things so you’re not precious about them, I have a bunch of Sennheiser E815 mics.  They’re less than £50 and perform well and I can recommend them

AntonHunter

ScreamingDave said:

As usual, there’s a bit if mission creep here, where the cost of recommendations gradually goes up and up. 

If you’re wanting to stick with the budget end of things so you’re not precious about them, I have a bunch of Sennheiser E815 mics.  They’re less than £50 and perform well and I can recommend them

They're cardioid like the ones OP is already using, how do you find the spill into them?

ScreamingDave

AntonHunter said:

ScreamingDave said:

As usual, there’s a bit if mission creep here, where the cost of recommendations gradually goes up and up. 

If you’re wanting to stick with the budget end of things so you’re not precious about them, I have a bunch of Sennheiser E815 mics.  They’re less than £50 and perform well and I can recommend them

They're cardioid like the ones OP is already using, how do you find the spill into them?

I’ve never particularly noticed it live in the mix, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exhibit any, tbf