Ampless setup for home and jams

TeleKinesis

Hi Fretboarders. Thinking I'd like to improve my bass playing a bit more this year and round out skills for jam nights etc.

I've got a Fender Jazz that I use for recording ideas and playing to tracks, mainly through Amplitube and out to small Genelec monitors or headphones.

It works fine, but I don't really like sitting in front of a computer for music practice. Much less adjusting amp settings with a mouse.

Sadly I don't have space at the moment for another decent sized amp alongside guitar stuff. Otherwise I would probably be casting around for e.g. Fender Rumble or an Ampeg combo.

I'm assuming that small practice amps like the Blackstar Bass Fly or Vox Pathfinder aren't going to be up to much sound wise due to speaker size? Or is that not a problem at home volume?

What I want is:

• Decent sound without too much faff or use of computer / phone
• Aux-in
• Headphone out
• One 'box' that can be taken to jams and used with in-situ amp
• DI for recording / PA (do I need cab-sim?)
• Bonus points for tone versatility, but definitely no menu diving or option paralysis

Music is the usual 60s, grunge, funk, blues, soul.

Budget about £150-200, could sell some stuff to go higher.

I was thinking a preamp pedal like the Ampeg SCR-DI or SGT. Am I right in thinking this just goes into the effects return of an available amp?

Two Notes Revolt Bass has powered out, seems appealing as I could add a cab later.

If it were for guitar I would probably be looking at a Laney Loudpedal.

Anything else to consider? Thanks for any pointers  

blobb

PJB double 4

CarbonCopy

Your post suggests you do already have an amp. What amp is it? The title says ampless, but your post suggests that you have still considered a bass amp too. 

The Two Notes Revolt Bass doesn't have a power amp output so can't drive a speaker cab unless there is a powered version that I can't find.

However, I would probably still go down the pre-amp route. I've not used the Revolt, but I have used the Origin Effects BassRig which I have plugged into my audio interface and into studio monitors. I don't need the computer on to be able to use that set up, so perhaps you could do the same.

A small bass practice amp probably won't sound as good and is not ampless anyway so doesn't fit your requirements. 

I had the Phil Jones X4 amp before which is small, but it sounded very clean and clinical and a bit boring so I sold it. It sounded better with pedals, but I wanted a simple set up. It had an aux in, but didn't sound very good at all playing music through it as most amps don't. I would definitely stick to playing music through the studio monitors. 

As for a DI and if you need a cab sim, I would say not. I record bass quite frequently and usually just DI the bass directly into the audio interface. It seems easier to get the bass to sit in the mix for me. Same for live too. Bass has been DI for years without any speaker sims and still is frequently.

One other option if you want to be able to add a cab later is a small bass head. I now use a TC Electronic BAM200 at home (cost less than £100 new) into a Barefaced 1 x 10" cab. It's a 200 watt amp and I have used this at rehearsals. Barefaced are quite expensive, but TC Electronic do their own cabs too. There's no aux in, but it wouldn't sound good anyway. It ticks all the other boxes though as can be used without a cab through the DI, has a headphone out, could be used at a jam if they have a bass cab to plug into.

JayGee

Not all practice amps are equal. 

My EBS Session 30 is portable, unobtrusive, does a remarkable job of sounding like a real bass amp, works surprisingly well for rehearsing with a polite band at civilised volume, and a post EQ DI output means it doubles very nicely as a pre-amp and personalmonitor (as long as it’s not a loud stage) when plugged into a PA or a larger amp. 

It also makes a passable acoustic guitar amp and at a pinch works OK with electric guitar (while I haven’t tried it I think it would probably work pretty well with modellers) making it a very useful (and reasonably priced) piece of kit to have around the place…

TeleKinesis

Thanks for the replies all  

Hadn't come across the PJB @blobb, thanks for that.

CarbonCopy said:

Your post suggests you do already have an amp. What amp is it? The title says ampless, but your post suggests that you have still considered a bass amp too. 

Yep, already got a guitar amp (Marshall DSL40CR) taking up space available. I'm not considering putting the bass through that as I understand guitar amp speakers are not specced for it?

In an ideal world I would definitely get a bass amp, but it's mainly the space aspect driving the requirements. Hence the 'ampless' approach  

CarbonCopy said:

The Two Notes Revolt Bass doesn't have a power amp output so can't drive a speaker cab unless there is a powered version that I can't find.

Aargh, correct  I don't know where I got that idea from. I must have it confused with something else - apologies.

Really useful points about aux-in and reproduction through different speakers. I'll have to think on this, I could go down the route of just playing tracks externally or a small mixer when using headphones.

Headphones are Beyerdynamic DT-770s and monitors are a pair of Genelec 8010AP (3" speakers with tweeters I think). I'm out of my depth here, but the frequency response of the speakers is listed as 67 Hz - 25 kHz. Is that low enough at a decent volume?

UnclePsychosis

My home practice setup is a Aguilar Tone Hammer preamp into a Yamaha HS7 powered speaker. 

I don't know if that would meet all of your requirements, but in my experience a decent bass pre into a powered speaker is the equal, if not the better, of any "proper" amp for home use at least. 

steamabacus

TeleKinesis said:

If it were for guitar I would probably be looking at a Laney Loudpedal.

Well, I just watched this today from NAMM (6 mins  in)

Slightly over your stated budget at £299

https://www.andertons.co.uk/laney-black-country-customs-nathan-east-digbeth-bass-preamp-pedal/?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=main-namm-26-laney

DiscoStu

Would the Zoom B3 be any use to you?

TeleKinesis

Thanks for all the replies again! Preamp pedal sounds like the way to go.

Do the monitors I've got look suitable? These ones: https://www.genelec.com/8010a

Probably no harm in buying a second hand pedal and trying them via a recorder / mixer.

steamabacus said:

Slightly over your stated budget at £299

https://www.andertons.co.uk/laney-black-country-customs-nathan-east-digbeth-bass-preamp-pedal/?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=main-namm-26-laney

Bit over budget as you say, but looks well featured. I think the EQ options could be a bit much for my level of understanding.

Let's see what sells on eBay!

CarbonCopy

TeleKinesis said:

Thanks for all the replies again! Preamp pedal sounds like the way to go.

Do the monitors I've got look suitable? These ones: https://www.genelec.com/8010a

Probably no harm in buying a second hand pedal and trying them via a recorder / mixer.

steamabacus said:

Slightly over your stated budget at £299

https://www.andertons.co.uk/laney-black-country-customs-nathan-east-digbeth-bass-preamp-pedal/?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=main-namm-26-laney

Bit over budget as you say, but looks well featured. I think the EQ options could be a bit much for my level of understanding.

Let's see what sells on eBay!

I've not heard those monitors, but if music sounds good through them, then a decent bass preamp should do too. 

HippoPete

I don't know if this is too late to be of use but I have a pair of Genelec 8010s that were languishing in the back of the cupboard for some while. I thought I'd dig them out and try and free myself from headphone cable tyranny. I'm afraid for me, the bass was no use at all so packed them up again.

No disrespect to the 8010s for music, soundstage etc they are fantastic but no good for playing along with. 

As you've got them already, no harm in trying as your experience could be way different from my 64 year old ears

Cheers.

Downsman

I play bass in a band, and sold my bass amp several years ago as I got fed up carrying it around and we almost never play anywhere that doesn't have a PA setup. I have a Tone Master Pro, but for rehearsals and several live gigs I've just been using a Valeton GP-5 that cost less than £60. It has some useful FX, built in bass amps but also converts NAM files that sound good. I use the built in SVT amp with an Eden 410 Cab IR I have. I run it straight into the PA for gigs, and into a Headrush 108 PA speaker at rehearsals which is more than loud enough for our band. Even used that at a coffee house gig we played. I run it into studio monitors in my home office, or into headphones for a portable option (using a USB power brick). Helps that you can play along to backing tracks over bluetooth. I also have a Tonex One that can do the same thing which I use for playing guitar, though it doesn't have the bluetooth backing track option. Both of them are also audio interfaces so you can record yourself easily. There are more and more similar small pedals coming out at different price points that do the same kind of thing with different configurations of switches etc.   

Secret_Sam

[Dumb suggestion deleted. I hadn't read the question properly]

Voxman

I've pretty much been ampless for gigs and rehearsals (unless there was a house amp provided) for 10 years now. I put my MFX (typically a Vox Valvetronix Tonelab SE or LE) straight through FOH or one (or occasionally two) tri-pod mounted Headrush FRFR108. I can't stress enough the importance of tripod mounting these which sounds completely different to having them on the floor where they sound overly bassy and don't project as well. I'll sometimes have one on the floor but only ever as a monitor cab where it's not audience facing. 

Where I've had to travel by tube and using a house amp I've typically taken my Pod Go set up as an effects only stomp pedal board with no amp/cab models. I also have a Valeton GP200X that I've used at a friends BBQ party but not at an actual gig yet. And like @Downsman I have a Valeton GP5 too plus a Chocolate Plus although previously I'd not bothered to set it up properly yet. But in the coming weeks during my recovery time from my double hernia op (only had it Friday morning) I'm going to set up the GP5/Choc+. Together with a small power pack it means I could literally have a rehearsal fx rig that can fit into my pocket!  And that little G5 sounds incredibly good with easy tweaking via the smartphone app.

At home I have a FRFR108 under one of my amps for when I want to use an MFX. But usually I'll just use my original 'Blue' series Vox Valvetronix amps. 

  

Winny_Pooh

Buy a modeller