Power amps for modellers

DiscoStu

flying_pie said:

@DiscoStu have you tried more agricultural/mid focused IRs? Assuming of course that you're not using whole rig captures 

I don't know about you, but i find that the detailed, crystal clear ones sound great at quiet volumes but don't cut it with a band. Origin Effects have some free ones that are very mid focused and punchy in comparison with the York Audio/Ownhammer type ones. Might be worth a look

https://origineffects.com/product/ir-cab-library/

But a light power amp and a 1x12 won't be that much heavier than a FR10

I'm using all in one captures. I think?
I wouldn't know where to start with looking for individual IRs

flying_pie

DiscoStu said:

flying_pie said:

@DiscoStu have you tried more agricultural/mid focused IRs? Assuming of course that you're not using whole rig captures 

I don't know about you, but i find that the detailed, crystal clear ones sound great at quiet volumes but don't cut it with a band. Origin Effects have some free ones that are very mid focused and punchy in comparison with the York Audio/Ownhammer type ones. Might be worth a look

https://origineffects.com/product/ir-cab-library/

But a light power amp and a 1x12 won't be that much heavier than a FR10

I'm using all in one captures. I think?
I wouldn't know where to start with looking for individual IRs

If you just used time models rather than DI/IR presets or all only values with your own IR then they will be full rig.

All in one captures probably won't sound that great if you turn off the cab. The AI has to guess what part of the tone is made up of the amp and what part is the cab.

If you are going to use Tonex with a power all and call then you're better using all only captures (often cashed DI). You can still use them in FRFR cabs with IRs

Littlejonny

Lebarque said:

This looks interesting

https://www.hagamps.com/collections/pedals/products/power-baby-tube-output-stage

‘Get that Randy Rhoads Crazy Train tone’ ie one of the most horrible guitar sounds ever recorded.

Littlejonny

gearaddict said:

This again, apologies - wondering if there are any new options. I find that running my modeller into the fx return of my valve amp has a body and presence that is missing from any solid state options I have tried. I’ve tried the orange pedal baby, sd powerstage and ehx magnum 44. Anything else worth trying?

This implies that you are running the modeller into a valve power amp and guitar speaker. So you’re almost using the real thing anyway - you’re only replacing the preamp with digital (assuming you’ve bypassed the cab sim in order to use your guitar amp as a rear end. 

Granted, this will sound great but the only advantage you’re really getting is flexibility of tone, being able to make the preamp sound like anything you want. The power amp and speaker are of course fixed factors.

If you’re set on using a modeller, try sticking it through the PA … I used to be dead against this, but I’ve recently been getting used to it, and actually enjoying it. Modellers these days are so good that it can work really well.

I recently did a gig with someone’s Fender Tonemaster DR and I was blown away with the sound - had a solidity and weight to the sound that I’ve never heard before in a modelling solution. That would be my choice for lightweight gigging if I could afford one. 

gearaddict

Littlejonny said:

gearaddict said:

This again, apologies - wondering if there are any new options. I find that running my modeller into the fx return of my valve amp has a body and presence that is missing from any solid state options I have tried. I’ve tried the orange pedal baby, sd powerstage and ehx magnum 44. Anything else worth trying?

This implies that you are running the modeller into a valve power amp and guitar speaker. So you’re almost using the real thing anyway - you’re only replacing the preamp with digital (assuming you’ve bypassed the cab sim in order to use your guitar amp as a rear end. 

Granted, this will sound great but the only advantage you’re really getting is flexibility of tone, being able to make the preamp sound like anything you want. The power amp and speaker are of course fixed factors.

If you’re set on using a modeller, try sticking it through the PA … I used to be dead against this, but I’ve recently been getting used to it, and actually enjoying it. Modellers these days are so good that it can work really well.

I recently did a gig with someone’s Fender Tonemaster DR and I was blown away with the sound - had a solidity and weight to the sound that I’ve never heard before in a modelling solution. That would be my choice for lightweight gigging if I could afford one. 

I’ve been around the FRFR option merry-go-round a fair bit and ended up back at real cabs and power amps for gigging. TBH I don’t even use multiple pre-amps. The main benefit for me is the effects. I use the modeller as a multi-fx mainly. I would go 4CM but it’s just easier to use a modelled pre-amp and it sounds good through the fx return of the amp. Also we do a fair bit of practice via headphones so I can have one output with cab sim for headphones and one output without cab sim for the power amp and cab. 

Lebarque

Littlejonny said:

Lebarque said:

This looks interesting

https://www.hagamps.com/collections/pedals/products/power-baby-tube-output-stage

‘Get that Randy Rhoads Crazy Train tone’ ie one of the most horrible guitar sounds ever recorded.

Happy Easter

sweepy

I used a Harley Benton GPA400 for my Axe Fx3 and it works perfectly 

mark_jwedge

I also use a Fryette Powerstage as a valve poweramp for my modeller, it sounds fantastic and still keeps things lightweight and portable. 

Serves other useful functions for me of also being a great attenuator and adding an FX loop to my single channel, non master volume valve amp when I get the change to roll out the ‘big rig’, so the Fryette has proved really good value for money for me.

firepaulmusic

flying_pie said:

gearaddict said:

TheMarlin said:

gearaddict said:

This again, apologies - wondering if there are any new options. I find that running my modeller into the fx return of my valve amp has a body and presence that is missing from any solid state options I have tried. I’ve tried the orange pedal baby, sd powerstage and ehx magnum 44. Anything else worth trying?

Anderson’s did a video on this. Their assessment was what you’re doing is the best tone you will get. 

Playing through a valve amp fx loop sounds superior to any powered FLFR cab. More organic sounding. 

If you like what you have, stick with it. 

GAS is a cruel master, I’ve sold brilliant amps to buy amp I liked much less.  GAS has resulted in more regret than wins. 

Yeah, fair enough. The only issue I have is that running into the fx return of my amp leaves me with no volume control or eq. Not the end of the world. 

Either an EQ block at the end of your chain, or something like a Boss GE7 after your modeller could help there 

If you use the Laney Ironheart 15 or 60 heads that have a global EQ knob which works if you have a modeller in the FX return, works great...

Voxman

gearaddict said:

This again, apologies - wondering if there are any new options. I find that running my modeller into the fx return of my valve amp has a body and presence that is missing from any solid state options I have tried. I’ve tried the orange pedal baby, sd powerstage and ehx magnum 44. Anything else worth trying?

If its a purely digital mfx then adding a valve amp power stage definitely makes sense to give the mfx a more valve like feel and tone. 

The reason I use a Headrush FRFR 108 is two fold. First, I can't and/or dont want to schlepp out big heavy amps to gigs anymore. At my age, weight is a big issue now, and a 108 is only circa 19lbs.  Second, the mfx I use are old tech Vox Valvetronix Tonelabs (SE and LE) which have a valve that is used in the power amp section. So these give me that more valve like tone and response and work really well with the 108s. 

Interestingly I have experimented with putting the Tonelabs in the fx return of my Laney VC30 and Marshall DSL401 but I didnt like the tone through any of them as it was too dark. It was a bit better through my Laney Cub 12R but oddly the Tonelabs sounded better through the FX return of my Marshall Valvestate 8080 (where there is a 12AX7 valve in the gain stage only). Go figure. 

FarleyUK

Just tried running my AFX3 and Helix Stadium into the Fryette Powerstation - it was pretty glorious. Because the Powerstation uses valves, you still retain that vale warmth and feel, which is great.

gearaddict

Voxman said:

gearaddict said:

This again, apologies - wondering if there are any new options. I find that running my modeller into the fx return of my valve amp has a body and presence that is missing from any solid state options I have tried. I’ve tried the orange pedal baby, sd powerstage and ehx magnum 44. Anything else worth trying?

If its a purely digital mfx then adding a valve amp power stage definitely makes sense to give the mfx a more valve like feel and tone. 

The reason I use a Headrush FRFR 108 is two fold. First, I can't and/or dont want to schlepp out big heavy amps to gigs anymore. At my age, weight is a big issue now, and a 108 is only circa 19lbs.  Second, the mfx I use are old tech Vox Valvetronix Tonelabs (SE and LE) which have a valve that is used in the power amp section. So these give me that more valve like tone and response and work really well with the 108s. 

Interestingly I have experimented with putting the Tonelabs in the fx return of my Laney VC30 and Marshall DSL401 but I didnt like the tone through any of them as it was too dark. It was a bit better through my Laney Cub 12R but oddly the Tonelabs sounded better through the FX return of my Marshall Valvestate 8080 (where there is a 12AX7 valve in the gain stage only). Go figure. 

Interestificating. I had a bit of an experiment tonight and decided a couple of things. One is that I seem to prefer my modeller’s preamp into my tube amp compared to the actual tube amp. The other is that I prefer the modeller + cab sim into my Headrush 108 vs the modeller - cab sim into a solid state power amp and real cab.

Curse you for bringing me back to the path of FRFR. 

scott_the_blood

I use a Fryette Powerstation to power a Quad Cortex through a big ol’ Simms Watts 4x12, but I also have a TC BAM200 and to be honest I’m not sure I could tell them apart in a blind test. I love the Fryette but life would be much the same with just the TC. The only times I’d miss it is the odd time I put my Laney VH100R through the attenuator or use it to make a profile for the QC. 

Bats_

VH100R

The greatest amp ever in my opinion. 

scott_the_blood

Bats_ said:

VH100R

The greatest amp ever in my opinion. 

Amen to that! 

firepaulmusic

Lately I've been using my Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander Core as a power amp for my FM9. It has plenty of power and an EQ for the speaker output which is handy...

Handsome_Chris

FarleyUK said:

Just tried running my AFX3 and Helix Stadium into the Fryette Powerstation - it was pretty glorious. Because the Powerstation uses valves, you still retain that vale warmth and feel, which is great.

@FarleyUK , are you saying that the Axe-FX 3 does not produce valve warmth and feel by itself?

FarleyUK

Handsome_Chris said:

FarleyUK said:

Just tried running my AFX3 and Helix Stadium into the Fryette Powerstation - it was pretty glorious. Because the Powerstation uses valves, you still retain that vale warmth and feel, which is great.

@FarleyUK , are you saying that the Axe-FX 3 does not produce valve warmth and feel by itself?

This is going to open a can of worms, but I would say that I do not personally believe the Axe FX 3 'feels' as responsive as a valve amp. The new Agoura amps in the Helix Stadium are closer IMO, but still not 100%.

PLOP

Lots of sensible options here already but I may as well throw my hat in the ring too. I use a Helix into a 2x12 via a Warwick Gnome 200w bass head. At practice and gigs I put it into a 4x12 usually. 

Tons of clean headroom, fairly transparent as I keep all the EQ knobs at 12:00. 

I use it in a metal band so need the volume, I tend to put the volume and gain to about 10-11:00 and the helix volume knob at 12:00 so I’ve got plenty of quickly adjustable volume.  I really can’t fault it at all. 

https://www.thomann.co.uk/warwick_gnome.htm

Significantly cheaper than many other options tha do essentially the same job too. 

Voxman

I'm interested to try out the new Blackstar IDX Floor 3 - I know we've all heard similar things before but Blackstar is really pushing the 'sounds like a real amp' thing so I am curious.  I do like it's simpler approach & even the Floor 3 is under 6.5lbs. I've been reading the manual and, no surprise, it has some really nice features and some not so good shortfalls, but it's very competitively priced. The Blackstar FR Artist cabs sound interesting too. Stores are awaiting delivery of the new floor MFX units but as the IDX Floor 3 is specifically aimed at gigging players I'm wondering if it might be good enough both in tone and ease of use to replace my Tonelab SE/LE for gigging.