Synth suggestion?

axisus

Many many years ago I bought a Korg N264, and I loved it. Perfect for my keyboard noodling back in the days when I use to actually write music and record stuff. Due to a lack of room I haven't touched it for over a decade, my piano meanderings in that time have been on a Clavinova.

So ..... Finally having a bit of space, I got out the Korg and ..... Yuk! I just can't get on with the horrible plastic keys now and lack of feel. I feel that I need a new synth, but ideally with 76 keys minimum, and a decent weighted or at least semi weighted action. I'll probably look secondhand for something, but just wondering if anyone has any suggestions?

Yeah, I realise this is a guitar forum! Just throwing it out on the off chance though.

Stratavarious

Yamaha ModX M7 or M8?

octatonic

axisus said:

Many many years ago I bought a Korg N264, and I loved it. Perfect for my keyboard noodling back in the days when I use to actually write music and record stuff. Due to a lack of room I haven't touched it for over a decade, my piano meanderings in that time have been on a Clavinova.

So ..... Finally having a bit of space, I got out the Korg and ..... Yuk! I just can't get on with the horrible plastic keys now and lack of feel. I feel that I need a new synth, but ideally with 76 keys minimum, and a decent weighted or at least semi weighted action. I'll probably look secondhand for something, but just wondering if anyone has any suggestions?

Yeah, I realise this is a guitar forum! Just throwing it out on the off chance though.

There is an unwritten rule in synths that the best synths tend to not have a very pianistic keyboard action and the ones with really good piano style action tend to be shitty synths.

It sounds like you want 'a workstation' type thing- correct me if I am wrong on that.
Korg Krome is worth checking out in the style but there are loads of others.
Personally I think they are the most boring type of synths.

I'd recommend a Prophet 5/6/10, an old Juno, the Hydrasynth, Arturia Polybrute or a dozen or so more focussed characterful synths etc all day long over a workstation but they will have a synth action- it might be a good synth action but it won't feel anything like a piano.

If you want to play piano then stick to the Clavinova- you won't find a really great synth with a really good piano style action.
No one really plays a synth like a piano unless they are a) in dream theater or b) in a band that sounds like dream theater, and that is uninteresting synthesis to my ears.

I spend most of my time in the synthesis world designing west-coast style systems which don't usually even have a keyboard.

The closest to a recommendation would be a Nord Electro- I use one as a master controller in the studio. It is great for electric keys/organ type sounds. Really great keybed but I have never once used the synth engine except for a bit of mellotron. The rest of the time I am on electric piano, wurlitzer, hammond etc.

Winny_Pooh

Does your clavinova have midi out? If so use it as a controller 

monquixote

iPads are amazing synths get a midi controller and you are away.

axisus

Winny_Pooh said:

Does your clavinova have midi out? If so use it as a controller 

They are frikkin huge! would take up too much space in my room. I want something I can stand out of the way in the corner.

axisus

@octatonic Thanks, a few things to think about there. To be honest, you are right, I probably don't want a piano style keyboard, More like something inbetween - I think they used to call them 'semi-weighted' keys. It's been decades since I gave any thought at all to keyboards/synths, and there don't seem to be places to try them out like there used to be.

I remember being totally wowed by the Korg M1 when it came out. Every sound was inspiring, and I 'think' the keys action was OK (well, put it this way, I don't remember hating it). I want something with OK piano sounds and other 'out of the box' generally useable sounds. I don't want to faff around getting deep into editing!

GoFish

Get yourself an Ipad and an Arturia (or other) midi keyboard + dongles / interface for less than the cost of a synth? Or the Studiologic one that's like a cut down "portable" Nord. That will also work as a controller for the Ipad. 

menamestom

The Arturia Astrolab could be good for you, it's like a decent midi keyboard with all their VST presets built in.
Not the cheapest but a nice variety of decent sounds.

Arturia - AstroLab

Winny_Pooh

Then look at Modal Electronics. One of the main reasons I bought one is the feel. My 'piano' is a Korg SV2 and I'm very happy with the feel of the Modal Keys for a synth, I have the smaller Cobalt 8. Here's the larger one:

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Modal-Electronics-COBALT8X-8-Voice-Polyphonic-Synthesizer/76TJ

horse

I'd avoid the synth action mid-tier workstations based on the OP, as I don't think they'll feel nice enough to play. Not tried the weighted ones like the modx8.

Sounds like workstation type product rather than pure synth is what's wanted.

My leftfield suggestion is to consider finding a used Casio PX560. 88 weighted keys that will feel ok, reasonable quality sounds, light and portable for an 88 weighted key instrument. Built in speakers too. I've got a PX5S which has some similarities, and it holds its own in many ways alongside my more upmarket keyboards.

axisus

Well, it's very frustrating as there are so few places to try out synths/workstations these days! I narrowed things down to three, but it's impossible to find any of them to actually try anywhere, so it's just pot luck really for if it's going to feel right to me. Frustrating, I shall just have to take a punt.

octatonic

What is on your short list?

axisus

octatonic said:

What is on your short list?

Yeah, I guess I could have mentioned! I was being lazy, I figured this thread had probably run its course.

Well, having tried a few unrelated keyboards in London, I figured that I definitely want 88 weighted keys rather than a more synthy action, so a workstation. Looking online and checking out various things I came up with Korg Kross 2, Yamaha MX88 and Roland Juno DS88 - based on the fact that I want to spend a max of £1k and I want new rather than secondhand.

Of those I'm thinking the Korg. I would much prefer to have felt the keyboard action before buying though.

Stratavarious

DS88 has an absolute tonne of sounds for all genres, knobs for filter and cutoff, vocoder, drums, sample.player, splits, layers... 

Gigging the smaller DS tonight.. great value.  Good range of epiano and organs too.

Others are popular with bands for a reason.

Straight up pianos are better on Yamaha IMO though.but roland good for synths and pads and the Roland 88 makes up for that with nice weighted keys for pianos.

octatonic

Cool cool.

Can I make a suggestion?

Before you decide, go and spend a bit of time with a more focused synth as well. Something like a Moog Grandmother, Subsequent 37, Sequential Prophet 5, Prophet 6, Prophet Rev2, Arturia PolyBrute, Novation Summit, UDO Audio Super 6 or even something like the Oberheim TEO-5.

All the ones you listed are very capable “do a bit of everything” keyboards and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But they’re mostly digital workstation-style instruments with a broad palette of sounds and relatively menu-driven workflows.

What you can miss out on a bit with that approach is the visceral side of synthesis. A more focused synth with lots of dedicated physical controls can be a completely different creative experience. You stop browsing presets and start interacting with the instrument itself.

Even if you still end up buying one of the workstations, I think it’s worth trying a few proper knob-per-function synths first, just to get a feel for the difference in philosophy. In my case once I went down that road I never went back to a do-it-all synth.
Sometimes one good synth that really invites experimentation can be more inspiring than a keyboard that technically does 5000 things.

monquixote

There is no way I'd buy a workstation at this point. 

A PC with a midi controller is much cheaper and will absolutely spank it in terms of sound quality and tweakability. 

For example you can buy Zenology Pro which is the sound engine that's in the Juno DS for £88 at the moment.

https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/4-Synth/15308-ZENOLOGY-PRO

axisus

octatonic said:

Cool cool.

Can I make a suggestion?

Before you decide, go and spend a bit of time with a more focused synth as well. Something like a Moog Grandmother, Subsequent 37, Sequential Prophet 5, Prophet 6, Prophet Rev2, Arturia PolyBrute, Novation Summit, UDO Audio Super 6 or even something like the Oberheim TEO-5.

All the ones you listed are very capable “do a bit of everything” keyboards and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But they’re mostly digital workstation-style instruments with a broad palette of sounds and relatively menu-driven workflows.

What you can miss out on a bit with that approach is the visceral side of synthesis. A more focused synth with lots of dedicated physical controls can be a completely different creative experience. You stop browsing presets and start interacting with the instrument itself.

Even if you still end up buying one of the workstations, I think it’s worth trying a few proper knob-per-function synths first, just to get a feel for the difference in philosophy. In my case once I went down that road I never went back to a do-it-all synth.
Sometimes one good synth that really invites experimentation can be more inspiring than a keyboard that technically does 5000 things.

All fair points, but ...... at my age it's not like I'm going to be that creative! I'm just going to sit in my music room and start knocking up backing tracks again, which I used to do 20 or so years ago. I did try a couple of synths at the Yamaha showroom and I got a bit baffled by all the knobs and menus etc. It also made me realise that I'm definitely more of a weighted keys person. You mention some specific synths, but it's nigh on impossible to find things to try out these days, there are just so few shops compared to the old days.

Anyway, Moog Grandmother/Subsequent 37/Sequential Prophet 5/Prophet 6/Prophet Rev2/Arturia PolyBrute/Novation Summit/UDO Audio Super 6/Oberheim TEO-5  - I did check them all out (online) looking at cost and use/sound videos. Thanks for the effort you put in naming some examples, you definitely know something about this stuff! Most of them are more than I would want to spend right now though, and I think that there are just too many tweak options for someone like me. I'm more of a select a patch (and maybe modify it a bit) sort of person. 

If I get more into lead type playing I might get something small with a lot less keys somewhere down the line, but I think it would need to be a lot simpler and less powerful than those. Still, it's all food for thought. Thanks.

axisus

monquixote said:

There is no way I'd buy a workstation at this point. 

A PC with a midi controller is much cheaper and will absolutely spank it in terms of sound quality and tweakability. 

For example you can buy Zenology Pro which is the sound engine that's in the Juno DS for £88 at the moment.

https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/4-Synth/15308-ZENOLOGY-PRO

That's actually an intriguing thought that I hadn't considered. I don't think that Zenology Pro would work with my (old) available macs, but some other older synth software could be interesting. I shall look into things ....

monquixote

Do you have an iPad?

octatonic

I had a thought- I have a Korg Krome here that I don't use anymore- it was bought for a specific band project that ended a while ago.
It is 88 notes, hammer action, does all the workstationy things you like.
It would be a lot cheaper than any of the new synths you were looking at- around £550.

If you want pics then let me know- I've even got a roadcase for it.