Leg pain and driving

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    It isn't the front edge that is pressing on my thigh it is the side edge lip.  If I try to rest my foot to the left of the clutch I feel like the bucket lip presses in to the outside of my hamstring.  The actual seat part of the seat feels too narrow and the bucketing too severe, even though it is a normal seat and not a sports seat.
    Your arse is too wide?

    :)

    Only kidding. It actually sounds like the problem may be that the pedal group is too far to the left relative to the seat - this is a common problem in small cars because they need to avoid the wheel arch.

    If so, the only solution is likely to be a bigger car...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    do insurance companies care if you replace the seat?

    Generally no, its more engine/suspension and bodywork mods that they shaft you for.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • Looking at the left hand drive pictures I've posted it looks like the right hand drive left leg position is compromised compared to the left hand drive version.  Because of how the centre column is designed my left leg is always feeling bunched up when out of the way, whereas it looks like the door side on the left hand drive version has a bit more room to angle your knee.

    Regardless I am going to be further experimenting with leg position a lot the next few times I drive.
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  • ICBM said:
    It isn't the front edge that is pressing on my thigh it is the side edge lip.  If I try to rest my foot to the left of the clutch I feel like the bucket lip presses in to the outside of my hamstring.  The actual seat part of the seat feels too narrow and the bucketing too severe, even though it is a normal seat and not a sports seat.
    Your arse is too wide?

    :)

    Only kidding. It actually sounds like the problem may be that the pedal group is too far to the left relative to the seat - this is a common problem in small cars because they need to avoid the wheel arch.

    If so, the only solution is likely to be a bigger car...
    It is probably both my arse size and the pedals!  

    Going to try out a few more positions and the big test will be the road trip to Wales next week.  If I'm still in discomfort then I'm going to have to work out my budget and plan for changing the car.
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  • jimmydjimmyd Frets: 60
    I'm a skinny 6ft 3 and had a very similar problem when I had a peugeot van on hire.  There was just no way I could get comfortable driving the thing.  I think realistically a new car may be required...
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  • Sounds a lot like sciatica.  

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  • gilbygilby Frets: 176
    Which model Fabia is it. From the pic it looks like a step up from a basic model which may have simpler seats (not sculptured) so that may be an avenue to look at as a direct replacement from a scrapyard. I'm fairly certain the Fabia is based on the older VW Polo, again possibly another straight swap.
    I do sympathise with your predicament. At 6ft 3 with size 13 plates I can't really look at small cars.
    One other thing, not that I think it will help in your case. Most foot rests are detachable, for me it's been a common modification.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited October 2013
    It is a model 3, which is the old top model from 5 years ago.  I imagine it probably does have a different interior to the basic model.  The interior is extremely similar to the current one, which is shown in the picture.  In fact I've driven the newest one and the only differences I could tell were to things like the radio and the dashboard, everything else felt the exact same to me.

    I actually sat in the carpark at work for a good few minutes messing around with the seat.  I've come to the conclusion that I'm always going to be slightly twisted with it.  

    image


    It is should be visible in the picture I've posted - the centre console curves towards the driver once you pass the pedals.  This means your leg can't track straight towards the footrest, or at least I don't feel mine can.  I can't put my foot straight on the footrest either, it has to be angled like this \\ because where my heel goes the centre console has encroached on my space.  I feel like the angle I have my foot at is more severe than the picture would show, I don't think I can actually track the footrest as shown I'm pretty sure I have to have more angle on my foot because of the centre console and how there is a lip around it.  I've not driven another car for a while but I'm pretty sure I could rest my foot and leg a lot straighter in the old Carisma, and in general the footwell had a lot more space.  It doesn't look too band in pictures but it is noticeably cramped in the Fabia in person, for me anyway. 

    I will look in to removing the foot rest but it won't stop the fact that the centre console encroaches on my leg space and that the footwell is pretty narrow to begin with.  Definitely worth a try though.
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  • wibblewibble Frets: 1083
    Some of the VAG group platforms have more offset driving positions (seating and/or pedals) - the Polo/Fabia is a bit offset from what I remember plus as you mentioned it has a cramped footwell due to it being a smaller platform.

    The pedal height stagger doesn't help on some cars either eg clutch highest pedal, accelerator lowest.

    If you get a Golf/Leon/Octavia sized platform, you'll find them a lot roomier and no noticeable offset.
    Although don't go for the A4 platform cars with a manual gearbox as their offset is even worse than a BMW!

    I find I get a bit of lower back pain with some BMWs and their offset pedals, although the tighter pedal spacing makes it easier to heel/toe! :D


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  • gilbygilby Frets: 176
    If you're talking about the centre console being the gear lever/cup holder bit finishing under the stereo, that should be removable too. Ok, won't be pretty but may help in the short term until you choose another car. Could even source another, cut the section that's in the way and swap them back over when you pass it on.
    Do think the seat itself is still going to be problematic. If you "fill the seat well", I feel the sculptured parts of the seat don't aid blood flow.
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  • gilbygilby Frets: 176
    Actually, after enlarging the pic (I'm on the phone) I see that it's the stereo surround your talking about. Hmmm, think you might have to bit the bullet.
    Had a similar problem with an escort mk 3. Okay hack car but a pain on long journeys.
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4028
    edited October 2013

    I've been going to a physio and have hit my limit to what I'm willing to spend there.  There was an initial drastic improvement (I was in a lot more pain before going) but then it really leveled out to the point where I just felt I was maintaining my comfort level but paying lots of money.  I'm doing all the exercises, stretches, and have a foam roller that I use daily, along with a rolling pin. 
    What did the physio think was going on?  Someone's already mentioned sciatica, was it that, or something else?  But I was just wondering, have tried driving other vehicles for the sort of time that brings on your discomfort?  You need to do that if you've not done so already (and if I've missed it here, sorry!)  Because if the problem is with you rather than the particular seat of the car then we still need to get you properly fixed!
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    I would have thought the obvious answer is to get an automatic next time. I also used to get terrible leg pains driving my old works van, a Vauxhall Combo, after an hour or so in heavy traffic. It was all down to the clutch action and pedal positions. I got similar but less severe problems in my old Focus. Since I've had an automatic the problems have all disappeared.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited October 2013
    Grunfeld said:

    I've been going to a physio and have hit my limit to what I'm willing to spend there.  There was an initial drastic improvement (I was in a lot more pain before going) but then it really leveled out to the point where I just felt I was maintaining my comfort level but paying lots of money.  I'm doing all the exercises, stretches, and have a foam roller that I use daily, along with a rolling pin. 
    What did the physio think was going on?  Someone's already mentioned sciatica, was it that, or something else?  But I was just wondering, have tried driving other vehicles for the sort of time that brings on your discomfort?  You need to do that if you've not done so already (and if I've missed it here, sorry!)  Because if the problem is with you rather than the particular seat of the car then we still need to get you properly fixed!
    I actually went to the physio thinking my main problem was hamstring pain.

    After a discussion he came to the conclusion it was likely due to my car seat position, as there was no obvious trigger moment for the onset of pain.  It is just something that started as discomfort and got progressively worse.

    After assessment he discovered that all around my left hip, front outside, was very tight (and still is).  The tendon that runs down from the outside of my hip and down the outside of my thigh is what he thinks was the cause of the whole thing, especially near the top.  He believed the hamstring pain was from compensating for the hip.  I hadn't even worked out that the main cause could be my hip because my hamstring was so sore and I had been avoiding doing exercise and stretching because it was hurting (taking the stereotypical 'man' approach to health...).  To me my whole leg was stiff and my hamstring was immediately painful.

    He explained how my foot and leg position in the car going between operating the clutch and resting my leg is what was likely to be aggravating my hip.  I went four times and the first two appointments had a drastic impact and after the last two (which changed little more) he said I could just continue at home.  This was back in June/start of July.

    I actually had a setback not too long after in mid July when I chipped a small bone in my wrist and couldn't drive again until the end of August.  So in theory I wasn't doing my leg additional harm from the car in that period, but I was only able to continue stretching but not foam rolling/using a rolling pin.  I did feel like my leg improved.  I was lucky that my hand injury was not too bad and I only had around 5 weeks off driving IIRC.

    I went back to driving about an hour a day from the end of August and my leg started getting worse again.  The only rehab I could do myself initially was stretching, as I couldn't put weight on my left wrist without pain and certainly couldn't hold myself up on it (which is required to do the foam rolling).  

    I've only just in the past 2 weeks been able to hold myself up to perform the foam rolling, as even though my wrist was strong enough for me to drive (and I got the OK from my doctor) it was not initially strong enough to put weight on directly.  It is definitely helping but the fact I went backwards while I couldn't do the rehab points again to the car.  I have been doing the foam rolling and stretches and rehab exercises daily for the past 2 weeks.

    The problem is, that with the way the car is designed I'm always sort of twisting my left leg to achieve a resting foot position, and the lip of the seat is always going to A) dig in to my hamstring in the resting position and B) raise my leg up, but the cushion I've bought is sort of helping avoid A).  

    Along with the fact the centre console means I have to have my knee angled right but the footwelll design means I have to have my foot angled left, I can't see how I can get my leg in to a comfortable position, and I feel like it is not giving my hip a rest.  Every time I lift my leg out of the footrest position to operate the clutch I'm aware of discomfort and resting my foot flat on the floor out of the way isn't any more comfortable because the centre console gets in the way of my knee.  The steering wheel is adjusted out of the way so it isn't an issue in knee placement, and I've got no shoulder or arm pain so at least that seems to be set correctly.

    There has been no discussion of Sciatica to date and I can lie on my back and raise my leg with no pain (except to my hip currently).  The hamstring stretch I get in that position feels normal (taking in to account the dull ache that is there) and my right side is pain free.  I don't have any back pain.


    I have not gone and tried different cars yet, as I've only just got to the stage where I'm feeling like it must be my car that is causing this and that I can't reach a proper compromise (hence the creation of this thread, and buying an orthopaedic cushion at the weekend).  I probably won't have time to go looking for another two weeks, but that is in the plan.

    I will try and book another appointment with a physio this week before I go away to Wales (driving..) and will be sure to detail how I'm finding the car after really assessing the design and how I think it is affecting me.

    Thanks for your help so far guys.
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