perpetual beginners

Bellycaster

@clare_bear

It does feel sometimes like I don't improve, but I think it's very gradual and probably don't notice it. I do some proper practice but it doesn't amount to a lot of time each day.

I tend to only practice what I intend to use rather than practicing something for the sake of it. The rest of my playing time I like to just "Play the Guitar" and study guitar theory.

I got myself in a state recently with alt picking excercises and I was overdoing them and becoming bored and frustrated, it was becoming like "Work".

I still practice that but less so. I would rather see the improvement more gradual than trying to make it a "Sprint".

I also tend to be impatient and expect unrealstic levels of improvement in short time periods.

If you play the Guitar everyday and are always trying to learn something, whether its a song or a solo, you can't help but get a little better over time. It just wont be as much an improvement as someone who lives for practice.

Realistically, anyone who hasn't got all day to practice and put in an 8 hour a day dedicated routine is not going to become a Virtuoso. That's how long a FULL practice routine would take covering every discipline. How many ordinary people with jobs and commitments do that? Not many.

clare_bear

I think much of my problem is that I don't remember songs unless I play them about 200 times! The only song I can remember when I pick up my acoustic is 'Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)'. So it always feels like I'm a bit rubbish.

Any tips for remembering chord sequences? I guess repetition is the key really....and maybe just learning one song at a time.

Bellycaster

@clare_bear

Repetition certainly goes some way. I'm not being facetious, but you could always have yourself a folder of songs, either paper or electronic and log the songs you have learned and their chords etc. I used to do this because I really go to town learning songs and solos, I learn too many I think.

I now just list the songs/solos I've learned as my memory for how to play them is getting better.

I still have to cheat and go back to the internet for tab to remind myself of a chord I may have forgotten etc.

I don't know if you've started to learn any beginners theory, but that certainly helps de-clutter your head as instead of seeing songs as just a succession of chords and solos as just a long line of notes, it helps you put things into Keys and scales that are used in a given song.

Learning the positions of the Major Scale and Pentatonic Scales is very usefull and also learning about Diatonic sequences(the chords in a given key). Lots of songs use similar chord patterns like the I IV V progression(first, fourth and fifth chord in a key)

Break songs down into mini sections too and especially solos.

I highly recommend Justin Sandercoe's "Justin Guitar" website and also Fretjam, you can learn a lot from those 2.

 

 

 

 

clare_bear

Thanks @Bellycaster. I've been using the Justin guitar beginner's course. Maybe I need to write down the chord progressions for songs and think about the theory. I'm always too busy rushing to play and time has certainly told me that this is not much use. Slow down to speed up should be my mantra!

Bellycaster

clare_bear said:

Thanks @Bellycaster. I've been using the Justin guitar beginner's course. Maybe I need to write down the chord progressions for songs and think about the theory. I'm always too busy rushing to play and time has certainly told me that this is not much use. Slow down to speed up should be my mantra!

 

Probably mine too, I'm guilty of wanting to know everything "Yesterday".

 

Just try to enjoy what time you get.

[Deleted User]

@Clare do you look at your tabs/chord sheets while playing?

I find this one of the main barriers to successfully committing songs to memory.

I have several ring binders, and loads of electronic tabs which I look at whilst playing.

There are relatively few of those songs which I actually "know" off by heart.

The only songs I can remember inside-out are the ones I've made a committed effort to memorise by forcing myself to practice without looking at the reference material.

I usually take it a section at a time. Intro, first verse, chorus, solo etc. I learn a section by looking at the material and playing along. Then I'll play along without looking at the material. I do this as many times as I need to so it "sticks". Then I move onto the next section. When I've got that, I put them together, playing the whole thing up to that point without reference to the tab/sheet.

Before you know it you'll have played a song 10s of times, without looking at chords/tabs, and if you make the effort to play that song each day over the next wee while, most of them "stick".

Works for me.

One caveat. This is a time consuming way of memorising songs, so I tend to only use it for ones that I really like or intend to use in a public environment. For all the others that I just want to play now and again, I just refer to tabs etc.

Facepalm? Really? Why? I'd genuinely like to know...

randomhandclaps

Clare, do you live anywhere near a crossroads?

monquixote

@BigPaulie is totally right here. I always try and avoid having music with me at rehearsal as you can play something twenty or thirty times with music and still not know it. 

Interestingly I've been playing with a few pro brass players who will say "Do you want me to play dots or ear?" because it's so completely different a way of playing. 

They could walk in of the street be given a book of sheet music and play the whole gig note perfect, but have no idea what they just played because it goes straight from the page to the fingers without going into the brain.

I should also add that I'm a lazy bastard and all of the skill that I do have came from when I was at university and had huge tracts of free time. I'm probably not technically as good as I was when I was 18, but I can play a gig in front of a big crowd without nerves (and look like I'm enjoying myself), can learn a set full of songs in short order and integrate with a band so though I'm technically total balls compared to a lot of you guys I consider myself a reasonable musician.

digitalscream

monquixote said:

@BigPaulie is totally right here. I always try and avoid having music with me at rehearsal as you can play something twenty or thirty times with music and still not know it. 

Interestingly I've been playing with a few pro brass players who will say "Do you want me to play dots or ear?" because it's so completely different a way of playing. 

They could walk in of the street be given a book of sheet music and play the whole gig note perfect, but have no idea what they just played because it goes straight from the page to the fingers without going into the brain.

I should also add that I'm a lazy bastard and all of the skill that I do have came from when I was at university and had huge tracts of free time. I'm probably not technically as good as I was when I was 18, but I can play a gig in front of a big crowd without nerves (and look like I'm enjoying myself), can learn a set full of songs in short order and integrate with a band so though I'm technically total balls compared to a lot of you guys I consider myself a reasonable musician.

There's a laugh...I'm totally lazy, couldn't read sheet music to save my life, can just about follow a chord chart if absolutely necessary and reading tab is a "sit down and work it out" thing as a last resort. I'm also technically a mess. It's a bit embarrassing, really However, the one thing I can do is memorise a song...

Quite a few musicians I've played with, though, were very adept at sight-reading to the point where they relied on it and couldn't memorise a whole song even under ideal conditions. They were excellent players, but I have a hard-and-fast rule about no music stands on stage; it may look fine in a brass band or an orchestral setting, but not in a rock band - so I had to let them go. The way I see it, you learn the same way you're going to play; if you can't keep it in your head at home, you've got absolutely sod-all chance on a noise-filled stage with a couple of hundred people staring at you.

My advice would be...if you're struggling to keep stuff in your mind, write out the chord sheets and then throw them away. Try to play it - a section at a time if need be - and if you can't, write it and chuck it again. Rinse, repeat until it's all in your head.

mike_l

My way is to use the sheet music/DVD to get the part right, then play through a few times without it, from the beginning of the song.

So it's intro

the intro/verse1

then intro/verse1/chorus

etc

So I'm adding a part each time until I know the whole song.

clare_bear

BigPaulie;8905" said:

@Clare do you look at your tabs/chord sheets while playing?

I find this one of the main barriers to successfully committing songs to memory.

I have several ring binders, and loads of electronic tabs which I look at whilst playing.

There are relatively few of those songs which I actually "know" off by heart.

The only songs I can remember inside-out are the ones I've made a committed effort to memorise by forcing myself to practice without looking at the reference material.

I usually take it a section at a time. Intro, first verse, chorus, solo etc. I learn a section by looking at the material and playing along. Then I'll play along without looking at the material. I do this as many times as I need to so it "sticks". Then I move onto the next section. When I've got that, I put them together, playing the whole thing up to that point without reference to the tab/sheet.

Before you know it you'll have played a song 10s of times, without looking at chords/tabs, and if you make the effort to play that song each day over the next wee while, most of them "stick".

Works for me.

One caveat. This is a time consuming way of memorising songs, so I tend to only use it for ones that I really like or intend to use in a public environment. For all the others that I just want to play now and again, I just refer to tabs etc.

You're absolutely right, this is the only way to commit them to memory. I managed to learn about 25 songs for the band and this is how I did it. I try to play the song through looking at the chords and then without looking, but I don't put the chords out of reach. ..I must! I'm not even learning anything complicated, just simple strumalongs.

I'll make a dedicated effort to hide the chords.

not_the_dj

@clare_bear Join a band! (or re-join ;-) )

clare_bear

not_the_dj;9532" said:

@clare_bear



Join a band! (or re-join ;-) )

Ha ha :-) Definitely not going to have time once I start the MSc!

TheOtherDennis

I'm the same. Notionally I've been playing for over 14 years now, but in reality, I've had three years off, minimum, maybe even four, and only the first four of those years was I actually improving. I did spend a fair bit of time learning stuff that I have now completely forgotten.

I can learn to play stuff without the music/tab with a few plays. It takes a while to go in completely, because while I get the main bits, I forget the little stuff - where there's that chord you only play once in the whole song, for instance, I tend to miss it out cos I've forgotten it goes there.

What I really need at the moment is an incentive to pick up the guitar at all. Right now all of my expensively assembled (literally) collection is simply gathering dust. I haven't even touched my guitars except to move them since a sudden burst of activity in June. And that was the first time I'd touched them since, ooh, two years ago maybe?

My mojo, man, has gone for a walk and hasn't come back yet.

Clarky

Clare - try learning a song in small chunks...

learn each small chunk and memorise it..

then move on to the next..

the only way to really nail this is repetition..

octatonic

I'm happy to write up a practice log for people who feel they are getting nowhere.

Often people don't have an idea of what constitutes effective practice and it can come as quite a surprise when they find out what it actually is.

You'll need a minimum of one hour 6 days a week- although two hours would get you there quicker.

octatonic

mike_l said:

My way is to use the sheet music/DVD to get the part right, then play through a few times without it, from the beginning of the song.

So it's intro

the intro/verse1

then intro/verse1/chorus

etc

So I'm adding a part each time until I know the whole song.

Try working back to front.

Learn the ending first- as it will be the bit people notice if you fuck it up.

I see this a lot where someone starts a piece brilliantly and it gets progressively more shit as time goes by.

I also see it in my own playing- I can play the first 16 bars of Donna Lee approaching the speed of light.

The last 16... not so much.

mike_l

@octatonic ; I shall try that.

juansolo

Hell yes. My excuse was that I discovered making pedals and kind of overlooked the learning how to play bit...

clare_bear

octatonic said:

I'm happy to write up a practice log for people who feel they are getting nowhere.

Often people don't have an idea of what constitutes effective practice and it can come as quite a surprise when they find out what it actually is.

You'll need a minimum of one hour 6 days a week- although two hours would get you there quicker.

But what do you do if you can only grab half an hour now and again?  How do you effectively practice if you can't make a practice schedule, or is it more a matter of maintaining than improving if you can't dedicate time to it?