Iconic bass models - high level characteristics

hubobulous

I know nothing really about bass guitars in terms of their characteristics and trawled through to Page 7 here without finding a thread to specifically help, so.......

I was wondering if, (and I realise the folly of this upcoming caveated request), with as little mockery of your least desired models, you could give a basic description of the reasons why people would choose one of the following basses over the other? ;-)

I've kept the list to what I understand to be the iconic ones, so please can you tell me about them, perhaps leaving cosmetics out of the equation since its a given that these are the quite a personal factor in any purchase.

If you think I've missed any iconic models please add them in. This thread is aimed at being educational for others like me who don't know much about the differences, so whilst I know that there's Ibanez, Squires, Tokai etc, I'm just trying to stay at a high level here more as an introduction to the weird world of basses than an assessment of the market.

Thanks in advance. I'm now off to the guitar threads to help me feel less dirty :-)

P-Bass

Fender Jazz

Rickenbacker

Stingray

Thunderbird

stickyfiddle

Hofner 500/1 "Violin" and Gibson EB-3 are the other obvious candidates. There's the 335-style EB-2 as well but you don't see them often.

I guess maybe you then go into stuff like Alembics.

ICBM

hubobulous said:

P-Bass

Fender Jazz

Rickenbacker

Stingray

Thunderbird

That's pretty much the top five, although you would possibly substitute the Gibson EB0/EB3 for the Thunderbird.

Then as stickyfiddle said…

Something semi-acoustic (Gibson EB-2/Epiphone Rivoli or 'Jack Casady')

Alembic or other 70s exotic-wood/active circuitry (ie where 'modern' basses start)

Steinberger 'cricket bat'

Warwick (probably Streamer or Thumb)

Fender Mustang Bass (surprisingly widely-used for a short-scale, thin-bodied 'student model')

Then there are a huge number of Fender derivatives with active circuitry, and 'Japanese style' modern basses which started with the Bass Collection models (I think) and are all small-bodied and with active circuitry, and which there are a huge number of modern derivatives of.

Not forgetting the Aria SB1000, Ibanez Musician and Yamaha BB series, which were where high-quality non-US basses started.

And I forgot Wal, top-quality British basses very popular in the 80s and still good today.

hubobulous

Thanks both....so taking the list above with perhaps your suggested additions, can you describe the differences between them and their key traits/characteristics?

ICBM

hubobulous said:

Thanks both....so taking the list above with perhaps your suggested additions, can you describe the differences between them and their key traits/characteristics?

Surprisingly difficult to describe in words! The physical differences are pretty easy to spot if you just google pictures of all of them. and the types of music associated with them should become fairly obvious - except for Fenders, which are used for pretty much everything. Sonically, the Gibson-type ones tend to be bassier and thicker-sounding, the Fender-type, Rickenbacker and Japanese-type ones brighter and clearer, and with active circuitry you can theoretically get a much wider range of tones.

Playing-wise, Gibson EBs and Fender Mustangs are short scale (30.5"), most others are long scale (34"). Rickenbacker being perverse as usual are 33.25" . Some modern ones go for even longer, up to about 35". Neck size varies from the original P-Bass (large) to Jazz Bass (small), roughly - you probably won't find too much outside those two.

If you're short, avoid Thunderbirds .

hubobulous

@ICBM - thanks for that

Weird isn't it? If this thread were asking about the differences between a LP, Tele, Strat, 335 etc, there would be easy observations and clear characteristics.

From your overview, it's mostly scale length and cosmetics.

EricTheWeary

The bass player in my new band has an old Aria with active electronics. I've not really played with anyone who used these before and I've been quite impressed by how much control he can get over his sound from them. Not like the controls on my guitar which are interacting with the amp it's more like having an extra set of amp knobs on the bass.
The point of this being active controls are common on modern ( well, 80's onward I guess) basses but rare on guitars and are another element to consider.

stickyfiddle

I mentally separate basses thusly. Consider it as a multidimensional venn diagram in written form...

Thumpy in a good way

P bass

Rickenbacker

Thunderbird

Thumpy, hollow

Hofner (quiet)

EB-2 (loud)

Thumpy in a bad, unnecessary way

Stingray

Alembic

Warwick

All the funny, modern, organic looking things

Versatile without being thumpy and unecessary

Jazz bass

P-bass

Basses for short people

Hofner

Steinberger

Mustang

IanSavage

I've tended to use almost exclusively Leo-designed basses or derivatives thereof, so in my experience:

Precision: often described as 'clanky'-sounding, especially when played with a pick. Lots of low-end and surprising amounts of upper-mid available if you need it, not the most subtle bass sound in the world but with the right amp surprisingly versatile for something so simple. Think Steve Harris, Phil Lynott, and look up Matt Freeman from Rancid for some pretty good examples of the sound. As far as feel goes, the necks are generally among the fattest out there although they don't have to be (many examples of P-style basses with 'friendlier' necks around now).

Jazz: I never quite 'got' the bassists' adjective of 'burpy' for a Jazz until I played one fingerstyle in the type of band where the bass wasn't just part of a low-end maelstrom; they're a lot more middy than Precision and the notes seem to 'bloom' a little more rather than being in-your-face from the moment they're picked. Hence a more subtle and therefore versatile bass; I'm using one in a funky blues band at the moment and it's perfect, if I was doing heavier rock (again) I'd want a Precision or Stingray type - think Jaco Pastorious, Geddy Lee, Marcus Miller for 'the sound'. The neck's usually considerably thinner than a Precision (in fact the Jazz I'm using now has the skinniest neck of any bass I've played with the exception of a Japanese Bass Collection years ago), more comfortable for smaller hands but the narrow string spacing might be an issue for those with thicker fingers.

Stingray: in terms of 'feel' strapped-on, pretty much in between the P and J type (neck not-too-thick and not-too-thin, body nicely balanced (usually lighter than a P) and not as asymmetrical as a Jazz). Kind of in-between in sound terms too; doesn't have the almost 'scooped-out' sound of a Precision (although you can dial that in if you want it) or the more 'honky' basic Jazz tone (ditto) - a lot of people describe them as being quite 'hi-fi' sounding and for me that's pretty accurate. They very often come with active pickups and preamps, though, so you can tailor the sound to suit what you're doing; maybe not as characterful as a standard J or P type BUT if I had to pick one bass to do every gig with for the rest of my life it'd be a Stingray-type (and if it wasn't going to fuck up my endorsement, probably one of the US-made SUB basses from ten years ago ) )

IanSavage

Actually, to tick another one off - the reason I've never owned a Thunderbird is despite liking the sound for certain applications (deep, gut-punchy bass and a decent amount of presence) the balance of them is FUCKING TERRIBLE and for such a heavy bass the necks are often towards the Jazz side of skinny. I know some people who swear by them, they just don't 'fit' me.

hubobulous

@stickyfiddle and @IanSavage - both great pieces of input. Thank you :-)

hubobulous

@EricTheWeary - thanks for the info on actives. Certainly seem quite prevalent on basses, and useful...!

ICBM

hubobulous said:

@EricTheWeary - thanks for the info on actives. Certainly seem quite prevalent on basses, and useful...!

Agree about prevalent, not so sure about useful…

EricTheWeary said:

The bass player in my new band has an old Aria with active electronics. I've not really played with anyone who used these before and I've been quite impressed by how much control he can get over his sound from them. Not like the controls on my guitar which are interacting with the amp it's more like having an extra set of amp knobs on the bass.

Exactly, and I've never really understood why it's better to put them in the bass than the amp - unless you're DI-ing the bass and don't trust whoever is at the other end to EQ it right. The controls in an amp can usually be more powerful and effective than the ones on a bass, due to power supply and space reasons.

I still don't believe there's any style of music you can't play with a Fender P-Bass and a decent amp or preamp. Other basses are just different, not more versatile. Including my Rickenbacker really - it's only a bit more flexible because you can amplify the two pickups separately.

EricTheWeary

ICBM said:

hubobulous said:

@EricTheWeary - thanks for the info on actives. Certainly seem quite prevalent on basses, and useful...!

Agree about prevalent, not so sure about useful…

EricTheWeary said:

The bass player in my new band has an old Aria with active electronics. I've not really played with anyone who used these before and I've been quite impressed by how much control he can get over his sound from them. Not like the controls on my guitar which are interacting with the amp it's more like having an extra set of amp knobs on the bass.

Exactly, and I've never really understood why it's better to put them in the bass than the amp - unless you're DI-ing the bass and don't trust whoever is at the other end to EQ it right. The controls in an amp can usually be more powerful and effective than the ones on a bass, due to power supply and space reasons.

I still don't believe there's any style of music you can't play with a Fender P-Bass and a decent amp or preamp. Other basses are just different, not more versatile. Including my Rickenbacker really - it's only a bit more flexible because you can amplify the two pickups separately.

when we rock up to a rehearsal room I plug into whatever guitar amp is there and return to it intermittently over the rehearsal period to try to get it sounding right. Our bassist does all that from his bass and can do little tweaks without saying 'hang on everybody I've got to turn around and mess with the knobs on this amp for five minutes.' But, yes, once it's a familiar amp they probably do have less of a function other than you could change tone fairly radically on the fly if needed, maybe for that ten minute epic bass solo ( every band does that, don't they? Our bassist told us they do...).
Regarding P versus J basses I seem to remember Jaco used to practise on a P bass because he found them harder to play, he would then gig with his J bass and it would be relatively easy. As my bass playing was 99% chugging on the root the subtle differences were a bit lost on me, although my Hohner Jack was a delightful instrument to play as I remember it - a guitarist's bass I suppose.

albanov

All good sense so far.

If it helps, I find that the 'feel' of the different basses mentioned is an important factor as much as how they sound - they make me play in slightly different ways. 

Precison feels more thumpy/clanky (depending on EQ, Motown or Punk basically) and lends itself more naturally to solid, rhythmic parts. Probably the most versatile bass as mentioned.

Rickenbackers, possibly due to the neck through design, feel more 'lively' - sort of like you've started an engine that wants to keep going if that makes sense. They have a less solid low end and better higher fret access, leading to a more guitar-ish, busy style of playing. 'Clangy'

Thunderbirds are also neck through and share some of these characteristics but are more 'grindy' sounding.  More driving than the Rick sound perhaps.

Jazz I'd find the most difficult to describe, the thinner neck makes them easier to get around on than a Precision but they're not as zingy as a Rick. They sound a bit more hollow/woody to me. But I always played mine with very old strings and one of the pickup volumes rolled back for a deader sound. With both pickups up and bright strings you get a more scooped 'modern' tone. More suitable for slap and so on I suppose (if you must).

Hollowbodies are usually short scale and don't sustain much. They're great for that busy, 60's soundtrack kind of style... Also that 'woofy' british invasion sound and can get really round, heavy bass sounds good for reggae too. Not much use for modern tones though.

I don't know much about Stingrays, they play nicely but I'm not mad on the sound. A bit too 'boingy' for me. But in the right context they can sound good.

Another important point is what the guitarist(s) are up to. Many guitarists, being by nature egotistical monsters, are so concerned with 'cutting through' and making the biggest racket possible at all times that there isn't much room left for bass, particularly non-standard kind of tones. A good example would be a Gibson EB, which can sound great but are so bassy and woolly sounding they get completely swamped in the average blaring mids rock band mix. 

I think what I'm saying is, if it seems all basses sound very much the the same, it's the guitarists fault...

hubobulous

@albanov - due to the great info in your post, I'll let the comment about guitarists slide ;-)

albanov

Oh, I'm not pointing fingers, I'm as guilty as they come... 

strtdv

Thumb: growly (in a good way), also surprisingly versatile. The necks on Warwicks depend on the era. Early ones were very slim, mid 90s ones to about 2007 were huge (which I happen to like, I hate skinny bass necks), and the most recent ones are slimmer but not as slim as the very early ones.
Build quality is unreal, head and shoulders above fender, Rickenbacker and even music man, apart from the flimsy nut

fretmeister

IanSavage said:

Actually, to tick another one off - the reason I've never owned a Thunderbird is despite liking the sound for certain applications (deep, gut-punchy bass and a decent amount of presence) the balance of them is FUCKING TERRIBLE and for such a heavy bass the necks are often towards the Jazz side of skinny. I know some people who swear by them, they just don't 'fit' me.

Aye.

Horrible things.

Bad balance ends my interest in a bass, no matter how it sounds.

Lull basses now do a P shape with thunderbird pickups in. Sounds awesome and is very light. Shame it's about £2500!

mike257

If you're looking to buy, I'd try and get your hands on some examples of the models on your list and see how they feel to you - whilst they alo have identifiable characteristics to their core tones, they're all pretty damn versatile too.

The Fender Precision is a case in point - you can go from James Jamerson's Motown tone with a nice set of flatwounds, to Steve Harris's Iron Maiden sounds (flatwounds again, suprisingly) to Phil Lynott right the way to the clanky, growly tone of Rancid's Matt Freeman as mentioned above. You could write a similarly diverse list for most of the basses mentioned above, so I'd be cautious about taking too much stock in broad descriptions of tone.

After years as a Stingray devotee, I seem to have settled on a Sandberg California JM4, which is a Fender Jazz styled bass kitted out with a very flexible (but bypassable) active preamp. I've used it for rock, metal, alt-country, soul and for genre-hopping function gigs and find I can get close enough to any tone I need with a slight tweak to the controls, often just from a little nudge to the pickup balance knobs and a shift of my hand position. I think just getting a bass that feels good on you gets you a long way - so much variation in tone comes from technique and playing style (more so than with guitar, I'd say) that once you've got something of a decent quality you'll find you can do most things well enough with it.

hubobulous

@mike257 - thanks for the excellent post. The original question originates partly from considering buying a bass a little way down the line, but also for me learning about a topic of which I know little.

This thread is helping a lot with both, and of course should the time come to buy one, there's no substitute for playing the different models.