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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited June 2015
    crunchman said:
    Have we got anyone who can bowl consistently at 90mph, or spin it and consistently land it on a length?
    You don't even need that. Someone who moves it off the seam and lands it right in the zone on this pitch would do nicely. Any county tyro from David Masters to Darren Stevens would know where to bowl on this pitch. Dredge up Neil Mallender, he'd tell you where to drop it. 

    The pitch map Sky dragged up five minutes ago of where people have bowled to Southee tells the story. It's been either short or in the slot. No yorkers, very little pitched up. It's really been as bad a bowling performance as I've seen from England for a long time. 

    What's worse is that the press and fans are laying into Moeen. He's not had a great game. The seamers have been worse. It is unfathomable as to why they persisted with the short pitched form of attack. The Kiwis racked up 116 runs in 16 overs. Madness. 





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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    Cripes. Here's a Headingley attack from the ages. And we won! Pringle, Munton, Mallender, and Lewis... 






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  • jpttaylorjpttaylor Frets: 458
    It's not often I agree with Boycott, but he had it spot on in the 5 highlights show last night. This pitch at Headingley will give the bowlers something if they put it into the right areas and yet England are still bowling the obvious deliveries.

    So often this has been the problem in recent Tests - there's just not enough variation in line and length. Bowling short against this NZ is just asking for trouble at times yet they keep on plugging away. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    I'm guessing that McCullum is a bit concerned about the weather.  They would have had time to bat for another 2 or 3 overs and still get 20 minutes at England before lunch.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    jpttaylor said:
    It's not often I agree with Boycott, but he had it spot on in the 5 highlights show last night. This pitch at Headingley will give the bowlers something if they put it into the right areas and yet England are still bowling the obvious deliveries.

    So often this has been the problem in recent Tests - there's just not enough variation in line and length. Bowling short against this NZ is just asking for trouble at times yet they keep on plugging away. 
    It's not really a lack of variation, it's the lack of consistency to get the ball on a good length. Drop it there, nibble the ball about, you will get wickets. The short pitched attack is simply absurd on this wicket. 
    crunchman said:
    I'm guessing that McCullum is a bit concerned about the weather.  They would have had time to bat for another 2 or 3 overs and still get 20 minutes at England before lunch.
    Declaring at the time he did meant that New Zealand, if they rushed things a bit tomorrow, would get 78 overs today and 90 overs tomorrow assuming a full day's play. That means 168 overs so they'd be getting three new balls over the course of that time. One at the start of their bowling stint, a new ball early on tomorrow morning, and then one right at the end of play if needed. 



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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    If England had batted for 168 overs (unlikely I know) then they would have probably won the match before the 3rd new ball.  At 3 an over you would only need 152 overs to get 455 runs.  If weather isn't a concern you would bat on for another 3 overs and try to get another 20 or 30 runs.  In theory you would still have 5 overs with the third new ball.  His declaration must have been taking into account the weather.

    He probably should have declared a bit earlier.  Looking at this I'm not sure there will be any more play today:
    http://www.accuweather.com/en/gb/leeds/ls1-6/weather-radar/712327
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited June 2015
    What would have been the point in those extra 20 or 30 runs gained by delaying the declaration? Only four scores of 400 or more have ever been achieved in Test cricket to win a game. Another 30 runs on top of that wouldn't really have helped NZ. 

    I agree that it's unlikely that England would have batted for 168 overs, we'd either win or be dismissed earlier. But one should always think of the potential of a long rearguard England action, particularly with Cook in good touch. Leaving enough time for a third new ball was there to counter the possibility of England losing wickets and simply shutting up shop. Jo'burg in 1995 and Atherton's match springs immediately to mind, a poor SA declaration and stubborn English resistance meant they only got 5 overs with the third new ball. 

    Quite agree on the lousy weather forecast. Back tomorrow, lads. 





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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Oh cock.

    Three wickets down so far this morning and we haven't got to drinks yet.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Between their batting, dropped catches, and running out Lyth, Ballance and Bell have been a complete waste of space.  Would have been better playing Chris Jordan as a batsman.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Bell's lost form badly, the question is whether or not it's permanent. The Aussies will be targeting him, no doubt.

    I think we have to stick with Lyth, if only because we've gone through almost every other opener other than the likes of Hales and the other big hitters.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited June 2015
    Certainly the middle order inquisition is on the cards. Root was due a poor Test and his dismissal today was one of those that tells you that your side aren't going to hold out. 

    Bell looks awful. Ballance looked awful but he's had a good introduction to Test cricket. I wouldn't drop both of them. Bell out, possibly bring Bairstow in and move Buttler up the order. He's a batsman with so much potential and has been wasted down at 7. Quite seriously, I'd take the gloves off him, give them to someone else, and play him as a straight batsman. Having the gloves taken away hasn't hampered BMac or Sangakarra

    The way Moeen has bowled and batted this game, I suspect Rashid will be straight in for the First Ashes Test. Nothing to lose, everything possibly to gain. 

    Cook
    Lyth
    Ballance
    Buttler
    Root
    Stokes
    Bairstow (grrrrrrrrr)
    Rashid
    Broad
    Wood
    Anderson

    Interesting how the Southern counties are barely represented... 



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  • Move Butler up but leave the gloves on him. Rashid in for Ali. Bell has earned another chance , form is temporary and he has class still. Johnny B doesn't improve the side above Bell.

    Or how about boycott and Tavare to open?
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  • rocktronrocktron Frets: 806
    I wouldn't drop Bell. Okay, he had a poor match, but he has shown time and time again that he is capable of playing a big innings. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    Which Tavare? His nephew at Gloucs is quite useful at the top of the order. 

    Buttler has got something, fast hands, that not many English players have. Everyone's seen how well McCullum has done since dropping the gloves. In Buttler, we have a destructive player who could take that Pietersen role. If we keep him down the order, we don't get the full benefit of his ability. Again, I'll bring up Sangakarra. He's played 48 Tests as wicketkeeper and averaged 40. His last Test as designated 'keeper was 2008. With the gloves going elsewhere, he's played 82 Tests and averages a staggering 69. Now I'm not saying Buttler will show that level of improvement but he's up there with Joe Root in terms of being our best attacking batsman and he's wasted down there at 7.  

    With the form Bell is in since the first Test in the West Indies, anyone from Bairstow to Davies to Sam Billings would be an improvement. 



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  • In both cases those averages increased later in their careers once they were already proven. I think leaving the gloves on Butler for now takes a bit of pressure of him with the bat. Who knows though , it could be adding more responsibility as a top order batsmen alone makes him shine.

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  • rocktronrocktron Frets: 806
    edited June 2015
    Adam Gilchrist was an explosive batsman and wicket-keeper for Australia, and Alec Stewart fulfilled that role nicely for England. Alec had the more difficult role because he was also opening the innings immediately after removing his wicket-keeping pads and gloves. 

    Let's see how Butler performs against the Aussies before promoting him up the order. At the moment, he has a dual role which adds value to keeping him in the side. If he can withstand the sledging, and everything else Johnson can hurl at him, then maybe he can move up the batting order. Give him a couple of tests against the Aussies first so it can be assessed where his natural position is.

    Don't forget that England has lost 4 quick wickets in recent tests. While an attacking batsman makes for attractive cricket, someone who can hold the upper/middle order together is of vital importance to this side. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    In both cases those averages increased later in their careers once they were already proven. I think leaving the gloves on Butler for now takes a bit of pressure of him with the bat. Who knows though , it could be adding more responsibility as a top order batsmen alone makes him shine.

    In Kumar's case that could be argued but McCullum gave up the gloves because his knees were really suffering. It's been five years since he was the full-time gloveman, with one Test in 2013 where he did the job. As a keeper he was averaging 34. As a non-keeper, he's averaging 44. Without the gloves, he had to improve as a batsman in order to keep his place, a decision which has certainly paid off seeing how he's taken to captaincy and with the rise of BJ Watling and Luke Ronchi. 

    AB DeVilliers has a stellar record as a keeper-batsman but he became a keeper later on after Boucher's unfortunate retirement. 

    In Buttler's case, he's really got something with the bat. I really feel England would gain more from him as an out and out batsman. After all, a certain South African was batting at 9 and bowling first change offies against England at one point. Focusing on batting was right for him then, perhaps the same is true of Buttler. 



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  • ^ love that report , mainly because I had forgotten Butcher used to bowl some filth :-)

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    ^ love that report , mainly because I had forgotten Butcher used to bowl some filth :-)

    That day he got 4 for 42 against Australia... hilarious :D There was a better day though, the day Zimbabwe fell to the might of Giles, Butcher, and Anthony McGrath. Terrifying!



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  • Swann has been such a massive loss for England. Rashid will be better than Ali but no where near Swann level.

    Dreading the Ashes to be fair, we were lucky the last time they were over here and it was a false margin. I just hope Warner has an awful series at least , even when they stuff us.
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