Line 6 Helix

Clarky

I was quite impressed with what I saw / heard of the Helix

as with absolutely all multi-fx units, I suspect it'll have its strengths and weaknesses..

I don't think the fanboy thing is limited to Axe users.. I've seen it with pretty much everything [guitars, amps, fx etc]..

it's just human nature I imagine to get behind and justify your choices..

would I replace the Axe with Helix even if it actually is better??

most likely not.. for the same reason I didn't change from the 2120 [even when when it was more than 10 years old]..

cos I'm happy with it and beyond the ££ spent.. there are many hours that have gone into the config to get it where it is..

just as with my 2120 units I'd only stop using the Axe if it became unreliable..

or maybe if something came out that was head and shoulders more capable [rather than marginally better]..

even if the Helix turned out to be something like 'almost as good as the Axe'.. I suspect that the Helix will be a very attractive alternative to the Axe.. cos 'almost as good at half the price' is quite a thing

like it or not, FAS may have a fight on their hands.. and even if the Helix don't impact Axe sales, it may well hurt the AX8 and FX8 sales…

personally I've never been much of a fan of Line6 tone..

but I think this unit [from the limited things I've heard so far] is certainly looking like a leap in a much better direction..

impressed I is..

guitarfishbay

thorpy6;753464" said:

Playing devils advocate, you can understand the defensiveness. They've spent thousands on a system, they want to believe it's the best, (it may well be?) the hell is a threat to that belief. And whilst they can defend the axe they will, mainly because they may not want to accept their purchase could be usurped by the new pretender to the crown.



When it drops (the helix) there will be some that still won't want to accept it if it proves to be better.... Human psychology is a strange beast

But it is stupid thinking. If you like the tone of the Axe it is still the same regardless of what the Helix does.

I think the people who get like that are more collectors/buyers of expensive gear than players. I just want something that works! I really like my Axe fx 2, but as with my choices of PRS guitars and EMG pickups - it is gear that I've over time found works for me personally. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone as a one size fits all.

Teetonetal

Its no different really to boss vs boutique and most recently es8 vs g2

Some people just don't like gear that costs less.

With every video i see i am warming to the helix.. The modeling would be good amp backup and good home recording as well as good for tiny stages...

Routing looks jaw dropping

Screen looks great

Tactile switches look great

Sounds... Will have to see

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

Fanboy is really a word you should never use-the word sucks and the use of it. Because it is b**lsh**....sorry but that's the way I feel.

I don't care. YOU CAN'T CONTROL ME!!!!!

guitarfishbay said:

But it is stupid thinking. If you like the tone of the Axe it is still the same regardless of what the Helix does.

I think the people who get like that are more collectors/buyers of expensive gear than players. I just want something that works! I really like my Axe fx 2, but as with my choices of PRS guitars and EMG pickups - it is gear that I've over time found works for me personally. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone as a one size fits all.

There's wisdom in this. I've always maintained that - for me - the Eleven Rack sounds better and more natural than the AxeFX. If I had to record another album with a modeller, I'd probably pick up another one.

As for expensive gear...yeah, some people like talking about their gear after gigs, and it's easier to do that (and be the centre of attention) if you have stuff that people lust after, or are even just curious about.

PFAllen2

Regardless of the sonic differences between the Axe-Fx products and the Helix, there will be one obvious difference between them - availability ! The dealer network will make Helix available for demo all over the country compared to the axe fx which is a shot in the dark by comparison.

hugbot

thorpy6;753464" said:

Playing devils advocate, you can understand the defensiveness. They've spent thousands on a system, they want to believe it's the best, (it may well be?) the hell is a threat to that belief. And whilst they can defend the axe they will, mainly because they may not want to accept their purchase could be usurped by the new pretender to the crown.



When it drops (the helix) there will be some that still won't want to accept it if it proves to be better.... Human psychology is a strange beast

I get the impulse ,it's like mega drive vs SNES

Drew_TNBD

hugbot said:

thorpy6;753464" said:

Playing devils advocate, you can understand the defensiveness. They've spent thousands on a system, they want to believe it's the best, (it may well be?) the hell is a threat to that belief. And whilst they can defend the axe they will, mainly because they may not want to accept their purchase could be usurped by the new pretender to the crown.



When it drops (the helix) there will be some that still won't want to accept it if it proves to be better.... Human psychology is a strange beast

I get the impulse ,it's like mega drive vs SNES

SNES obviously!

rossyamaha

That Fractal thread is hilarious. I genuinely don't understand it though. Why get so eat up about it. It's just gear. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but slagging something off is just silly. It's just gear. Don't like it, don't buy it. 

We had a similar thing with a synth we launched recently called reface. People were ripping it to pieces about the build quality, the tone and the price before they had felt it, heard it or even seen the price. Tone always has been, and always will be subjective. Helix sounds awesome clearly but there will be folks who prefer something else. Build quality is not subjective. If Helix was a complete bag of shit from component level up, I could understand people moaning about the price. The thing is, it isn't. It's built to withstand clumsy idiots like me who don't look after their kit. Just because the L6 range has catered for the more affordable end for a while, it seems a lot of people have short memories or simply don't know the history. 

L6 started high end. I remember the AX2 being released. It was £2k nearly 20 years ago. Remember Vetta? I worked for L6 when that was released and the retail was £1899. The lower priced products appeared because of the demand for that technology but at working mans prices. It's always confused me when I see comments like "oh thats way too expensive" without considering the money spent on R&D or knowing how it's made and the costs involved it that. It all has to be paid for. 

I guess it's just down to society these days and the "my dads bigger than your dad" mentality of some people. "Oh you shop at Primark. Well this is Gucci". It's crap. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't. If it offers you a solution to a problem then it's good. Buy something you like and play the damn thing. Spend more time worrying about getting your chops up than worrying about something that has been released that you may or may not like. 

rossyamaha

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that. I had a late gig last night and played like a tool. I'm tired and grumpy. More caffine and nicotine needed I think! ;-) 

Love and hugs. 

Drew_TNBD

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that.

Have you been to OT or SC lately?? That was vanilla!

I totally agree with you though, and when people have been bitching about the price, the first thing I thought of was the Vetta. I remember being a kid with far less disposable income at the time, salivating over the thought of getting a Vetta. The Duotone was an exceptional amp also; I really liked combining the SLO and Recto models on that thing. Shame I couldn't even afford that one at the time

Actually thinking about it... most of my initial guitar amp/distortion sources were modelled. I started quite late - when I was 19/20 - and I didn't have cash. So I used Izotope Trash for the longest time, then I got a Pod 2.0, then a Pod XTLive, and I used that playing bass for a year or two. Bought all the model packs for it!

I hadn't quite remembered just how much of my formative years with guitar basically had nothing to do with single effects stomps and valve amps! Good times. Good times.

rossyamaha

Drew_fx said:

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that.

Have you been to OT or SC lately?? That was vanilla!

I totally agree with you though, and when people have been bitching about the price, the first thing I thought of was the Vetta. I remember being a kid with far less disposable income at the time, salivating over the thought of getting a Vetta. The Duotone was an exceptional amp also; I really liked combining the SLO and Recto models on that thing. Shame I couldn't even afford that one at the time

Actually thinking about it... most of my initial guitar amp/distortion sources were modelled. I started quite late - when I was 19/20 - and I didn't have cash. So I used Izotope Trash for the longest time, then I got a Pod 2.0, then a Pod XTLive, and I used that playing bass for a year or two. Bought all the model packs for it!

I hadn't quite remembered just how much of my formative years with guitar basically had nothing to do with single effects stomps and valve amps! Good times. Good times.

Ah yes the Duoverb. That was released while I was there the first time. Astonishing amp. Used one live for a while. The buying public just didn't get it though. I remember being so proud when I saw a picture of Kirk Hammett using one and it was sat on top of a Dumble. Yes it was Kirk Hammett but the fact that amp was sat on top of one of the most sought after amps in history and amongst all of the other incredible amps was something a bit special. 

And theres a thing. I have had the good fortune to playing some of the most incredible guitars, amps and pedals. Including a Dumble. I know they are dialled in for each individual player but as good as it was (and it was good) it left me somewhat cold. One thing I didn't do was immediately go online and start harping on about how bad it was. It didn't work for me so I didn't buy it. 

Another thing that lots of people don't know. Jeff Beck recorded one of his albums, I forget which one, almost exclusively with a POD 2 and a Flextone 2. That was pretty cool. 

digitalscream

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that. I had a late gig last night and played like a tool. I'm tired and grumpy. More caffine and nicotine needed I think! ;-) 

Love and hugs. 

Dude, not a bit of it was incorrect. The only people who'd be offended are the drooling knuckle-draggers over that <that other forum>. You're fine

rossyamaha

digitalscream said:

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that. I had a late gig last night and played like a tool. I'm tired and grumpy. More caffine and nicotine needed I think! ;-) 

Love and hugs. 

Dude, not a bit of it was incorrect. The only people who'd be offended are the drooling knuckle-draggers over that <that other forum>. You're fine

Thanks mate. I guess I still need to be a little careful what I say but you all seem like lovely intelligent people and would take it in the way that is meant. 

dindude

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that. I had a late gig last night and played like a tool. I'm tired and grumpy. More caffine and nicotine needed I think! ;-) 

Love and hugs. 

Was a good, and accurate, rant. I personally dislike when a representative from a company is too sanitised on the forum, we still need personality, and you (along with Matt from a fender) achieve a good balance

meltedbuzzbox

rossyamaha said:

digitalscream said:

rossyamaha said:

Sorry if I offended anyone in any of that. I had a late gig last night and played like a tool. I'm tired and grumpy. More caffine and nicotine needed I think! ;-) 

Love and hugs. 

Dude, not a bit of it was incorrect. The only people who'd be offended are the drooling knuckle-draggers over that <that other forum>. You're fine

Thanks mate. I guess I still need to be a little careful what I say but you all seem like lovely intelligent people and would take it in the way that is meant. 

there is always a risk of misunderstanding written word but generally everyone is on the same page.... well chapter at least :-)

rossyamaha

By the way, you would never find me slagging off gear anywhere. I love gear. I love all gear. I can find good in anything. If you met my wife you would realise how truthful that statement is. 

There's no bad gear around. Just gear we like and don't. It's all good and the second the world stops bitching about X product being better or worse than another, that is the day we will have world peace. 

sweepy

Having had my fair share of Line 6 stuff in the past, I can see the Helix being a great bit of kit, cheaper than the Fractal and yes, as mentioned earlier, a lot easier to get hold of. Like Clarky, I still have an old 2120, which records beautifully and sounds mighty with my Marshall 9100 in stereo, will I buy a Helix ? probably, but some gear will have to go to fund one, as typically I'd go for the rack unit to save space and my back in my studio

Drew_TNBD

rossyamaha;753735" said:

Ah yes the Duoverb. That was released while I was there the first time. Astonishing amp. Used one live for a while. The buying public just didn't get it though. I remember being so proud when I saw a picture of Kirk Hammett using one and it was sat on top of a Dumble. Yes it was Kirk Hammett but the fact that amp was sat on top of one of the most sought after amps in history and amongst all of the other incredible amps was something a bit special. 

And theres a thing. I have had the good fortune to playing some of the most incredible guitars, amps and pedals. Including a Dumble. I know they are dialled in for each individual player but as good as it was (and it was good) it left me somewhat cold. One thing I didn't do was immediately go online and start harping on about how bad it was. It didn't work for me so I didn't buy it. 

Another thing that lots of people don't know. Jeff Beck recorded one of his albums, I forget which one, almost exclusively with a POD 2 and a Flextone 2. That was pretty cool. 

Ah yeah, the Duoverb, not Duotone. It was a cracking amp!

I'll generally harp on about features - like if a feature is implemented poorly, or doesn't work properly or isn't intuitive. Sure. I'll say my piece on it. I generally don't rant and rave about the "sound" of things though, because I know that most things in this day and age sound pretty decent.

I took a bit of stick for saying that the Zoom MS70CDR can stand up alongside the Strymon's and the Eventide's of the world. But I stand by it. Cheap gear doesn't necessarily sound any worse than the expensive gear. Usually what you lose is features and/or build quality in my view.

My bug bears tend to be related to:

- Patch/preset change latency
- Lack of trails
- Stupid chipmunk noises when using tap tempo features with delays
- Signal to noise ratio

Those are kind of the first things I check out when looking at new gear.

Teetonetal

rossyamaha;753751" said:

By the way, you would never find me slagging off gear anywhere. I love gear. I love all gear. I can find good in anything. If you met my wife you would realise how truthful that statement is. 

There's no bad gear around. Just gear we like and don't. It's all good and the second the world stops bitching about X product being better or worse than another, that is the day we will have world peace. 

Disagree there is some very bad gear around for the price it is marketed at.

What I would say is that cheap doesn't necessarily equal poor and expensive doesn't always equal great.

The helix will always generate some negative discussion purely because it's made by line 6 and backed by Yamaha and is affordable (for what it is). There is nothing like the word affordable to bring out the snob in people and also the defensiveness.

Also people spent a lot of money on axe systems so a lot of self justification will be going on.

Not sure yet if helix will be for me but I will certainly try one for myself

Strat_a_tat_tat

rossyamaha said:

I can find good in anything. If you met my wife you would realise how truthful that statement is.  

Seems a bit harsh, mate!

I'm sure she's lovely.