Real Gibson or Chinese replica ~ ~ ~ how do you tell ???

thermionic

I bought an Epiphone Les Paul recently and it's interesting to see the difference and similarities between Epis and Chibsons. In comparison to the one above mine (a relatively high end one by Epi standards btw) is also veneered on the back but it's easy to see - I noticed it from the ebay photos and I wasn't looking for it as I didn't realise that's how they were made. The rest of the body is at least 4 blocks! So you could say the Chibson is better made than a top of the range Epi in some ways, although Epi at least get the cutaway and knob placement right.

There's many minor "wrong" things with the Epi but that's part of the bargain, just like a Classic Vibe Tele isn't exactly like a Fender 52 RI.

Oh and the Epi is pretty hefty - a shade over 9lbs, although I have no illusions as to the authenticity of the "mahogany".

Edit: I marked the seams with masking tape:

The headstock seems to have a "wing" on one side but not the other, and the scarf joint looks quite high up (my Dot's scarf joint was 3-4 cm lower):

jd0272

I think we need to see it from another perspective too, aside from the 'it's a fucking outrageous rip off shite quality some fucking weight issue hasn't got nibs pickups made out of bent forks does he know what he's buying it'll sound shite with no fucking oomph' stance.

If the dude (or dudette) is buying one for aesthetic/cost reasons to gig, not to rip someone off, does the punter in the pub, pissed up at 9pm + i) notice visually ii) notice audibly iii) give a fuck as they're concentrating on remembering the lyrics so they can shout along, their drink, or iv) giving attention to the tight female arse rubbing their crotch in the packed boozer?

Oooh gin o'clock.  

Lukeage

Which is why I said it was a nice piece of guitbox (posted by ICBM) and followed it up with nothing more. I would happily busy myself with that. Heck I would buy a Tokai and leave it untouched even. I like me them Love Rocks... I've played them. They're every bit as nice as an epiphone in my opinion and sometimes better looking. Though, of course, I've got my hands on many real Gibsons too and you just can't beat the feeling of playing the genuine article. I think you just know when you've got the real piece. I think you can get close but you can never completely pull off a solid flawless replica of the genuine article. But as pointed out by jd, from a distance does it really matter? Some of them are nice guitars and from a certain distance them punters be clueless through the beer goggles of a Saturday night! Only us sober guitar nerds will bring the pub band into question/disrepute over that there Chibson

imalone

jd0272 said:

I think we need to see it from another perspective too, aside from the 'it's a fucking outrageous rip off shite quality some fucking weight issue hasn't got nibs pickups made out of bent forks does he know what he's buying it'll sound shite with no fucking oomph' stance.

If the dude (or dudette) is buying one for aesthetic/cost reasons to gig, not to rip someone off, does the punter in the pub, pissed up at 9pm + i) notice visually ii) notice audibly iii) give a fuck as they're concentrating on remembering the lyrics so they can shout along, their drink, or iv) giving attention to the tight female arse rubbing their crotch in the packed boozer?

Oooh gin o'clock.  

Fine, but if that's the point then put your own name on the headstock. Putting gibson on there they're hoping they can get more money by tricking someone into thinking they're getting a bargain for the real thing, not paying for it on it's own merit. (And it means their effort is put into making it look like the real thing rather than ensuring it is genuinely good to improve their own reputation, so what you're paying them you're paying for their efforts to fool you and others.)

Lukeage

Have a wisdom, on the house @imalone

I knew a guy who bought old Burnys and Tokais etc and converted them to Chibsons but he never sold them - if I was doing it I wouldn't sell it. I reckon. 

But that feeling like I said as well of knowing that it's not the genuine article, it really defeats the object!

jd0272

imalone;99700" said:

jd0272 said:

I think we need to see it from another perspective too, aside from the 'it's a fucking outrageous rip off shite quality some fucking weight issue hasn't got nibs pickups made out of bent forks does he know what he's buying it'll sound shite with no fucking oomph' stance.

If the dude (or dudette) is buying one for aesthetic/cost reasons to gig, not to rip someone off, does the punter in the pub, pissed up at 9pm + i) notice visually ii) notice audibly iii) give a fuck as they're concentrating on remembering the lyrics so they can shout along, their drink, or iv) giving attention to the tight female arse rubbing their crotch in the packed boozer?

Oooh gin o'clock.  





Fine, but if that's the point then put your own name on the headstock. Putting gibson on there they're hoping they can get more money by tricking someone into thinking they're getting a bargain for the real thing, not paying for it on it's own merit. (And it means their effort is put into making it look like the real thing rather than ensuring it is genuinely good to improve their own reputation, so what you're paying them you're paying for their efforts to fool you and others.)

If they're selling it I wholly agree. Fucking outrageous behaviour.

If they're playing the shit out of it, then they can do what they want with it. It's up to them to run the risk of legal action.

badlydrawnbanjo

Speak of the devil....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=301036642289&globalID=EBAY-GB

ChrisMusic

badlydrawnbanjo said:  Speak of the devil....  http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=301036642289&globalID=EBAY-GB

Re the eBay Chibson, it has now been taken down.

ICBM's pictures (thanks so much for that) show one source but I believe that there are other factories from what I have read.  Maybe with fret nibs etc it is closer than many, but there are others and other giveaways to look out for too.  Far eastern hardware, especially the bridges and posts are a good giveaway, as are Korean / Chinese scarf joint necks on some.

This discussion was started with the intention of pooling the knowledge of theFretBoarders to stop any of us getting burned by an unscrupulous seller, so thanks to everyone so far for your contributions.

Just a small note on the Tokai, Burny, Greco MIJ LPs; they brought out replica guitars of 1950s Les Pauls that Gibson were no longer producing, and short of buying a vintage instrument that was the only way to get that spec in the late 70s when it all started.

So maybe some of that was down to Gibson for ignoring a market sector.

Tokai called theirs Les Paul Reborn, in honour of the early guitars no longer being produced by Gibson.

They are also clearly branded as Tokai, Burny, Greco etc, unlike the Chibsons referred to here.

ChrisMusic

Does anyone else have an opinion on Chibsons?

I know ICBM had it pretty well nailed for the Epi source, but there must be more resources out there showing what to look out for, especially if they are coming from different factories.

Share the knowledge...

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

But I think it's a real double standard to think that Tokai, Greco etc are acceptable because they put a different logo on what is still a blatant copy for which Gibson receive no money - and if anything those *are* the guitars which deprive Gibson of sales.

I'm very much with you on that ...

ChrisMusic

Ironic then that Tokai are also victims of the same thing, "Fakai" Chinese copies with Tokai logos.

Copying the copiers...

chrisj1602

There's a difference between a replica or something that copies a design, and a counterfeit that is actually pretending to be a another brand's product.

OilCityPickups

chrisj1602 said:

There's a difference between a replica or something that copies a design, and a counterfeit that is actually pretending to be a another brand's product.

Both are intended to deceive ... just one is angled more towards self deception than the other

jd0272

chrisj1602;101043" said:

There's a difference between a replica or something that copies a design, and a counterfeit that is actually pretending to be a another brand's product.

IF it's produced with the intention of being sold fraudulently.

OilCityPickups

It's clear that Tokai etc are producing 'copies' without the permission of Gibson ... that is just the same thing as the Chinese fakes. It's just the fact that not having a Gibson logo allows buyers to feel they have a moral high ground ...
There is actually only one legal Gibson copy ... Epiphone, anything else is a fake. Now I'm not saying that they are not good guitars, and I'm not saying don't buy them ... but Burny, Greco,Tokai etc are fakes ... with enough legality cynically tagged on the headstock to keep them from annoying Gibson too much ... no more no less.

GuitarMonkey

Clearly the Gibson name and logo are registered trademarks and anything bearing them not made by Gibson is a fake.

The "open book" headstock is also a registered trademark and that's why Tokai (except in Japan where rules differ) cannot use the Gibson style headstock.

The body shape argument was lost when in the 60s when Gibson made no Les Paul guitars and it failed to challenge the copies. And again when they tried and failed in the long term to stop PRS making single cuts. They still manage to bully a few makers though such as ESP which (again outside Japan) does not offer 4-knob Eclipses and Vintage who reshaped the horn.

usedtobe

There are other choices. It's not either a Gibson LP, or a Chibson LP. Plenty of decent guitars in the LP ballpark that will do you - without the guesswork that comes with a Chibson.. They won't be a Gibson LP - but then neither will the Chibson!

mr-mac

Sambostar said:

I agree with people wanting a gigging guitar that is more expendable than their pride and joy, just because of the price of them.  At the end of the day, it's not to prevent dings and stratches.  Everyone knows that those headstocks break real easy and once broken hundreds are wiped off the value of thing and worse case sometimes it cannot be repaired.

I'm currentl gasing for a solid mahogany Les Paul, but it won't be a Gibson, too much.  Irony is I had a Maison white Les Paul custom, made in Korea in the '80's.  I sanded it down and refretted it and it was a great guitar and 100% solid mahogany with one piece mahogany neck, actually with a full thickness maple cap but the headstock snapped off it.  maybe too close of a replica.  I'd like an old Aria, but that volute just puts me off, so what can you do?

I've considered Chibsons, but it's all show and glitter, I'd rather have something that was solid mahogany but looked shit.  Even if you don't get a scarf headstock, it's all a veneer. I guess I should get an Aria.

the guy at mojo pickups in UK has a maison les Paul that heastock got broken off. He said he didn't want to loose it so it was glued back on and hasn't been fine ever since

not sure what age you had as the white and black maisons often have solid alder body with maple top and the sunburst ones were mahogany but then they were hand made so vary a bit and did some custom ones too.

whichever version maisons used quality woods and good luthier work but hardware electronics were mostly std Korean fare.

mr-mac

Didn't realise thread was so old till after posted and canny see a way to delete on mobile site. Sorry if its not done thing on here

ChrisMusic

No worries @mr-mac , necro bumps are always interesting...   (& no sniggering at the back there!).
Old threads never really die, or become irrelevant, so it's always nice to see a revival and a new perspective IMO.

BTW, welcome to the forum mr-mac , lots of good threads since we started, and even more great wisdom shared on here