I'd like to learn legato, properly(ish).

GuyBoden

I'd like to learn legato properly, at the moment I pick nearly every note, this picking style has evolved from playing too much older style Jazz guitar when I was younger, which was nearly all picked notes.

Any help, suggestions of styles of legato are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Guy

stratman3142

Things that help me are a low camber fretboard, high'ish frets and a sustaining sound. I would say light strings, but apparently Tom Quayle uses 11 gauge.

I regard myself as more of a 'legato' than 'pick every note' player. I probably naturally went that way because I'm left handed but play guitar right handed - not that I'm suggesting playing the guitar the other way around.

I think it helps to learn to be comfortable playing 3 or even 4 notes per string for many lines, so left hand span is a part of the technique. Also, if your thinking is based around the CAGED system (which mine is) this means being comfortable thinking 'outside the box' (so to speak) and playing in a way that spans more than one CAGED shape at a time.

I've been a legato player for many years but I still found some good stuff to learn from the 51 Modern Legato Guitar Licks Lessons by Tom Quayle. I like the way he combines legato with a range of techniques, so it doesn't just sound 'legato' and is a complete integrated approach.



But apparently I don't do it 'properly' according to Marshall Harrison because my approach is a 'Petrucci legato' (but not as good ).
You might want to listen to what he says if you want a Holdsworth type sound.

viz

I'm the opposite. Since I did those jazz things I've been having a look at my right hand and it doesn't do a sausage. Look at the runs at 0:31 and 1:17. I think it happens because the gain is so high. Can't imagine how bad it would sound on a clean setting so consider turning up the gain, though you'd lose that gorgeous tone you have.

newi123

Go find the Richie Kotzen and Greg Howe REH / hotlicks videos on you tube - both a bit 80s, but both have outstanding legato technique!

GuyBoden

@stratman3142
Thanks, I'll check out Tom Quayle's legato again, I have some of his Jazz stuff already. I've listen to Marshall Harrison over the years when he posted on guitar forums, he is a really good player, I'll have to analyse what he's saying about the two legato techniques.

@viz
Yeah, I enjoyed your 500 Miles High, very good rendition. The Gary Burton improv course is a good intro into modern(ish) Jazz.

@newi123
Thanks, I'll look up the Richie Kotzen on Youtube, I've listened to Greg Howe before, he's a top player, Tom Quayle is influenced by him.

Unfortunately, light strings and low action is the opposite of my current setup, so I'll setup one of my guitars with that in mind.

Thanks
Guy

DLM

This would be an excellent place to start:

http://martingoulding.com/lessons/legato/

He's a respected authority on teaching this stuff.

Harrison is a top-class player, but gets very ranty about the precise definition of legato and slips away from the point IMHO. What I understand you to mean is that you want to play a bunch of notes without picking each one. Legato has become shorthand for that in guitar speak. It's not quite accurate: Nuno Bettencourt plays some rather effective staccato with hammer ons and pull offs, for example.

octatonic

Martin Goulding will sort you out ^^^.

The 5/6 tuplet stuff is great.

Worth expanding it beyond just 5/6 though.

I have a couple in 7 and 11 tuplet that I've made my own- it is good to be able to find a way to apply it in a way that other people haven't unless you want it to be derivative, much like sweep picking and economy as well.

GuyBoden

DLM said:

This would be an excellent place to start:

http://martingoulding.com/lessons/legato/

He's a respected authority on teaching this stuff.

Many thanks, I'll check it out.

Sambostar

To me, it's all about your first finger, or hammering on that first note on a string so it's as loud as the rest without picking a single thing, it doesn't have to be your first finger necessarily.

Sounds as smooth as anything after that.  That is the only 'Proper' thing about it I think that if you can't do that, it's usually why your playing falls down.  It does feel weird and unnatural, but eventually it gets wired I suppose.

stratman3142

DLM said:

This would be an excellent place to start:

http://martingoulding.com/lessons/legato/

He's a respected authority on teaching this stuff.

Harrison is a top-class player, but gets very ranty about the precise definition of legato and slips away from the point IMHO. What I understand you to mean is that you want to play a bunch of notes without picking each one. Legato has become shorthand for that in guitar speak. It's not quite accurate: Nuno Bettencourt plays some rather effective staccato with hammer ons and pull offs, for example.

Yes that's a good point. I get confused about what to call the rock approach. I've tended to call it 'hammer-ons and pull-offs', which is a cumbersome term. You're right that 'legato' in guitar speak is generally taken to mean 'playing a bunch of notes without picking each one'.

I used to think that Nuno (one of my favourite players) did his high speed low string staccato thing by picking every note, which was the cause of a lot of angst. It was a great relief when I realised it was legato (or whatever the correct term is ).

Pete

 

thomasross20

Legato is the main way I play thought I'm incorporating more picking these days. 

Check my channel for vids, there's usually a w@nky bit at the end of each. 

Wow, that Goulding guy is damn good!

GuyBoden

Sorry, but I need some help on the details of descending legato, the style that doesn't use flicking the string like a pulloff. There are some excellent players on this forum who play this style of legato superbly.

Thanks in advance.

hollywoodrox

This book by Chris brookes is very good one of the Joseph Alexander series publications .

https://youtu.be/YirQ-tuaaKw

Vibetronic

Rick Graham has some good tuition available too. I (coincidentally) started getting into that whole muted legato thing, which he does too - it's really good at making sure your fingers are nice and strong and hitting the strings hard enough to make the note sound out. I started doing it hammering on arpeggios to try and get a specific sound and it just sort of developed from there (obviously looking at how RG did it helped too ). With the descending stuff you mention (and like in the Chris Brookes vid above) having a strong little finger is really useful and you don't have to do exaggerated pull-offs if it's strong and accurate. 

Brad

GuyBoden said:

Sorry, but I need some help on the details of descending legato, the style that doesn't use flicking the string like a pulloff. There are some excellent players on this forum who play this style of legato superbly.

Thanks in advance.

If I’ve understood What you’re after correctly, as mentioned by @stratman3142 you want to check out Allan Holdsworth’s technique. He didn’t use ‘pull offs’, more descending hammer-ons if that makes sense. That meant there was a more consistent sound between his ascending and descending lines. What amazed me when I first saw him play was how much he actually picked. So the right hand is just as important here. Brett Garsed is another guy who uses this approach (Allan was a huge influence on him). 

GuyBoden

Brad said:

GuyBoden said:

Sorry, but I need some help on the details of descending legato, the style that doesn't use flicking the string like a pulloff. There are some excellent players on this forum who play this style of legato superbly.

Thanks in advance.

If I’ve understood What you’re after correctly, as mentioned by @stratman3142 you want to check out Allan Holdsworth’s technique. He didn’t use ‘pull offs’, more descending hammer-ons if that makes sense. That meant there was a more consistent sound between his ascending and descending lines. What amazed me when I first saw him play was how much he actually picked. So the right hand is just as important here. Brett Garsed is another guy who uses this approach (Allan was a huge influence on him). 

Thanks for the good advice, what I'm currently doing is picking harder on the descending legato, because it is so much quieter than my ascending legato, but this is difficult.

octatonic

GuyBoden said:

Brad said:

GuyBoden said:

Sorry, but I need some help on the details of descending legato, the style that doesn't use flicking the string like a pulloff. There are some excellent players on this forum who play this style of legato superbly.

Thanks in advance.

If I’ve understood What you’re after correctly, as mentioned by @stratman3142 you want to check out Allan Holdsworth’s technique. He didn’t use ‘pull offs’, more descending hammer-ons if that makes sense. That meant there was a more consistent sound between his ascending and descending lines. What amazed me when I first saw him play was how much he actually picked. So the right hand is just as important here. Brett Garsed is another guy who uses this approach (Allan was a huge influence on him). 

Thanks for the good advice, what I'm currently doing is picking harder on the descending legato, because it is so much quieter than my ascending legato, but this is difficult.

Chunk it.

Barney

GuyBoden said:

Brad said:

GuyBoden said:

Sorry, but I need some help on the details of descending legato, the style that doesn't use flicking the string like a pulloff. There are some excellent players on this forum who play this style of legato superbly.

Thanks in advance.

If I’ve understood What you’re after correctly, as mentioned by @stratman3142 you want to check out Allan Holdsworth’s technique. He didn’t use ‘pull offs’, more descending hammer-ons if that makes sense. That meant there was a more consistent sound between his ascending and descending lines. What amazed me when I first saw him play was how much he actually picked. So the right hand is just as important here. Brett Garsed is another guy who uses this approach (Allan was a huge influence on him). 

Thanks for the good advice, what I'm currently doing is picking harder on the descending legato, because it is so much quieter than my ascending legato, but this is difficult.

You can really do decending Legato without the use of the picking hand at ...every new string you can hammer from nowhere....

Barney

I done something a few months ago when I could use the picking hand ...dont iff it will be any help but it will show you can do quite a bit with just the fretting hand 

Branshen

Barney said:

I done something a few months ago when I could use the picking hand ...dont iff it will be any help but it will show you can do quite a bit with just the fretting hand 

spectacular display of technique does your left hand feel tired at all doing that? 30 seconds of trying that and my left hand is spent. also, how close can you get it to the levels if you were picking by just using your left hand? I suppose more gain might be the solution?

Barney

Branshen said:

Barney said:

I done something a few months ago when I could use the picking hand ...dont iff it will be any help but it will show you can do quite a bit with just the fretting hand 

spectacular display of technique does your left hand feel tired at all doing that? 30 seconds of trying that and my left hand is spent. also, how close can you get it to the levels if you were picking by just using your left hand? I suppose more gain might be the solution?

No I'm ok as far as my hand getting tired ..it dosnt really ...it would more so repeating  power chords for a length of time 

I'm not sure what you mean about when you say picking using the left hand ?

Yeah gain helps but works without gain as well...what I find hard is when ascending getting the first note to ring using the first finger ... this was just a exercise with my right hand being out of action..