Shylock Discussion

AdminTeam

This discussion was created from comments split from: Shylock Discussion.

peteri

Sorry to hear of your problems, and I know I'm relatively new here.

Just to point out phrases like 'the Shylock' may be offensive to some of us on here - and that's not political correctness

fretmeister

peteri said:

Sorry to hear of your problems, and I know I'm relatively new here.

Just to point out phrases like 'the Shylock' may be offensive to some of us on here - and that's not political correctness

Are you a ruthless & cruel money lender then?

peteri

Not funny

fretmeister

Wasn't being. I was under the impression that most definitions of the word are either are either the characters name itself from The Merchant of Venice, or separately, a loan shark irrespective of background.

mgaw

i thought it was quite humorous.........@peteri reply made me feel weary..does it really matter or are we all going to have to be "sensitive" to any use of cultural figures/stereotypes...i fucking hate all that mate......

fretmeister

I've just checked a few proper dictionary sites. Seems I'm right. Def 1, in capitals, is the character, def 2 is loan shark with no mention of background. Verb use is for lending money at exhorbitant rates. Still no background.

fretmeister

mgaw said:

i thought it was quite humorous.........@peteri reply made me feel weary..does it really matter or are we all going to have to be "sensitive" to any use of cultural figures/stereotypes...i fucking hate all that mate......

Sensitivity to a fictional character would be weird.

Bogwhoppit

fretmeister said:

peteri said:

Sorry to hear of your problems, and I know I'm relatively new here.

Just to point out phrases like 'the Shylock' may be offensive to some of us on here - and that's not political correctness

Are you a ruthless & cruel money lender then

I thought he was a fictional detective ?

preston61

peteri said:

Sorry to hear of your problems, and I know I'm relatively new here.

Just to point out phrases like 'the Shylock' may be offensive to some of us on here - and that's not political correctness

I didn't know Joe Marler was on this forum

SunDevil

Would the Hooded Claw be OK?

peteri said:

Sorry to hear of your problems, and I know I'm relatively new here.

Just to point out phrases like 'the Shylock' may be offensive to some of us on here - and that's not political correctness

Moe_Zambeek

fretmeister said:

Wasn't being. I was under the impression that most definitions of the word are either are either the characters name itself from The Merchant of Venice, or separately, a loan shark irrespective of background.

Also, of course, widely regarded as an antisemitic slur in some communities. Surely that's not news to people in these enlightened times? Whether or not this board - well known for it's support of freedom of speech - would consider that an issue is another matter.

Sassafras

I'm struggling to understand why 'Shylock' would be offensive to anyone.

I used to go to a barber called Shylock and Barnett, I don't remember any protesters boycotting the place.

SunDevil

It's probably worth pointing out that the whole of my Fathers side of the family is Jewish - I'm a fairly unlikely anti-Semite!

Fairly sure this thread was about flagging the rather dubious trading practices of Haars Guitars, but I'm afraid I neglected to confirm his ethnicity

Peace y'all!

EricTheWeary

Quick Google suggests that Shakespeare is considered to be anti semitic by some and productions of the Merchant of Venice sometimes receive protests due to the portrayal of Shylock (who converts from Judaism by the end IIRC). There's a story, for example, of vice president Biden having to publicly apologise for use of the term in 2014.

I don't think I've ever used the word in any context but I can see how it would be considered to be offensive (portraying a highly negative Jewish stereotype) although if I had started this morning trying to think of offensive words I'm not sure I would have come up with it. Learn something new every day. And Haars Guitars the... bad people... B-)

underdog

fretmeister;1007546" said:

Wasn't being. I was under the impression that most definitions of the word are either are either the characters name itself from The Merchant of Venice, or separately, a loan shark irrespective of background.

Exactly the reason I lol'd the mention of it being offensive, surely you'd have to have an affinity with a cruel (and fictional) character to be offended by it.

underdog

Moe_Zambeek;1007622" said:

fretmeister said:

Wasn't being. I was under the impression that most definitions of the word are either are either the characters name itself from The Merchant of Venice, or separately, a loan shark irrespective of background.





Also, of course, widely regarded as an antisemitic slur in some communities. Surely that's not news to people in these enlightened times? Whether or not this board - well known for it's support of freedom of speech - would consider that an issue is another matter.

I've never been aware of it being an anti Jewish remark, it doesn't make sense to be either, Shylock was hated because of his ruthlessness, cruel and lack of empathy, not because he was Jewish. It's like saying someone is acting like Hitler is offensive to Germans.

Moe_Zambeek

It's not rocket science to see that Shylock - a character portraying a particularly vicious form of usury and an almost inhumane love of money over people, ties in with common antisemitic views of the Jewish race as being similarly in love with money over all else. See similar phraseology such as ' yeah, he jewed me out of a tenner!'. The Jewish race is often portrayed as being all about the money, to the detriment of whichever race wants to use this as a means of diverting attention from any given problem they have, or just to create a focal point for anger.

For this reason, there are some in the Jewish community who consider the character of Shylock to be an offensive characterization of their entire race. This is not a new thing - there are many who thought Shakespeare deliberately created Shylock to embody that particular negative view of Jews. The reason why he did so is debated - either to shine a light on a cruel and unfair perception of a race, or just to embody the popular view of the time. Depends how generous you want to be about old Will's intentions.

I'm not Jewish, I have Jewish friends who wouldn't be offended by this, but i'm aware of the fact it's considered a slur by many. That's all. 

fretmeister

Lawyers get called shysters all the time. Background doesn't come into it.

Drew_TNBD

Shylock isn't as bad a word as raghead.

hobbio

I've never heard Shyster used as an anti-Semitic insult, I just thought it related to a specific character and his distasteful personal traits.

I would say I'll stop using it, but I don't really use it anyway.