NAD...

thomasross20

Have a guess....
Spent 3 hours trying about every head in the shop through my cab. 
--> I perhaps should have tried different cabs as some amps sounded way better than others through the NL212.

But for now I have to go... I dropped my phone and it's shattered the screen so I have no comms! Then a party tonight (turned into hospital trip, d'oh). 

thomasross20

FYI most amps sounded PANTS to my ears!

It was mostly the distortion that I was particular about - I genuinely only liked about 2-3 heads in the whole store I tried. 

Going to do a massive review of all the amps later tonight/tomorrow...

Moe_Zambeek

I suspect you bought whichever was lightest

guitarfishbay

If you like the cab call it quits and don't change it. It is light enough for you and sounds good.

I'm going to bet you bought the HT5

thomasross20

Neither of those!
Might do the HT5 in a separate deal for my 260, though (good backup).

thomasross20

FYI while I was in there I have to say Mayones are looking REALLY good these days and play well. If only they put fret dots on!

DanR

I like no fret dots on maple boards.

I think you bought the Atma.

I still have massive urges for a Friedman PT or DS.

thomasross20

OK so here goes.....

Firstly I have to say... you have to totally discard the top and bottom 10% of all reviews. 
Also, as we all know, online videos are no good - you have to go try amps yourself. 

Took my NL212 cab and played through them with PRS and Suhr guitars. I'm actually curious if there is some "super great sounding" cab that is 1x12 that is good for gigs (like a 2x12) and light. Cabs might be another part of the equation I have to explore but I like the light weight of the NL212 for now and @digitalscream tells me the NL212 is damn good sounding and I believe he's tried a fair few cabs. 

Firstly... amps I couldn't properly try were the Brunetti Pleximan (damn...) and Victory amps. I've tried Vaiai's V30 which was great but I'd need longer with my own set-up. Both of these could have been very strong contenders. 

Second, I aim at some point to understand what the "sound" of different stages (class-A, class-AB etc) actually sound like relative to each other. I also want to check if the clean up from the guitar volume is most effective for pre-amp or power-stage. 

Third... most amps actually did ok for "home levels" as master volumes generally seem to be pretty good. 

Fourth... real test is in a band scenario so you can't really tell until you gig.

Fifth: Some amps were a little noisy, I forget which.. so I see why the HT5 quietness is such a good thing.



Mesa Rectoverb 25 head - too loud for home I hate to say. I thought it was a tad noisy and with hissy distortion. Just wasn't keen.

Mark V:25 - definitely "feels" better than the Rectoverb and to be fair, home volume is ok. Clean channel is really good. Doesn't (IMO) do a proper crunch. 

Marshall Jubille - looks great but I wasn't keen on the clean (definitely prefer Fender cleans) and I thought the distortion was a bit pants, especially whacked up to max - very buzzy, like top-end fizz akin to Orange in some ways. Wasn't keen on that... 

Lionheart 5W: Nice cleans but  thought the drive channel was pants. Lots of options - possibly too many. In the end I think it felt "toyish" compared to some of the other heads. 

Bogner Atma: Wasn't keen on the popping sound when turning on and off and switching between 1, 5, and 18W power modes. It might be because I read this online and it preyed on my brain but I swear I got fatigue whilst playing this amp - I did find it uncomfortable after a while. I didn't like how when you switch between 70s and 80s mode, for example, you have to re-adjust the volume. I don't want to have to adjust volumes like that when changing channels during a gig. I found the CR knob on the back didn't do too much. It was light and small and definitely was home-friendly and did sound good. But not good enough for over a grand, IMO. 

At this point I was sweating because I got all these amps shipped to the store and was thinking that I'd be leaving saying "no thanks, sorry about that!"

Friedman Dirty Shirley - only one channel, I never realised. Spent some time with it but thought it was a bit "meh" to be honest, especially for the price. 

Didn't see a Tubemeister, unfortunately. 

Tried the HT1 which is so small and light - very cool. If it was footswitchable I'd have gotten it! Sounded great. YOu do miss the EQ on the dirty channel, though. 

Now the runner-up......... I only tried this as the folk at the till were busy and saw the new design of their amps. The Fender bassman 15W!! This thing sounded FANTASTIC!!! Honestly... the cleans were so great... "glass-like" if that makes sense. I'm SO glad I'm getting Fender clean and not Marshall on the MJW.... Probably the best clean channel I played of all the heads. Cheap (under £400 IIRC) and also... if you whack up the gain it sounds absolutely immense! Not footswitchable, though. Honestly, I was very impressed and thought about buying it. Highly recommended!!

The winner: Blackstar HT20. 
I didn't even go in to really try it, it was just me saying "might as well" but when I did, I realised I had to get it (after comparing it to the Fender for about half an hour). Not too big and not too heavy - completely manageable. I like the look of the Blackstar stuff. The clean sounds more than good enough - maybe not as good as the Fender but damn good IMO. The dirty channel, fantastic like the HT5. Strange it doesn't have a standby switch like the HT5 however any pop was minimal (and non-existent when turning controls down - and @ecc83 tells me standby is achieved by pulling the lead out at the amplifier end prior to turning off). There was no top-end hiss like on the Marshall (how do they do this?). I mean, these are ex-Marshall guys, doing it better than Marshall IMO. Just sounded great. And I like how there's the master volume so you can crank the pre-amp or power-amp sections. And in-built reverb. Is it louder than the HT5? I think it'll have more clean headroom and might be a tad louder but I'll see when I get it. 

This isn't me being a Blackstar fanboy but... I actually think I am. I think their amps are amazing! And the HT20 is only £430!! I smashed my phone earlier in the day so I'm glad not to be spending too much more - couldn't be happier at how it's worked out, to be honest. They get it in stock on Tuesday (no box...). Comes with the FS-4 footswitch. 

Guitar and amp - I'm liking that basic set-up lol. Going off pedals. 

thomasross20

I checked and the Blackstar is all-valve. I wonder if anything is solid-state like the rectifier. They must be doing something because they're killing it with the sound, in the best way possible. This is what the manual says:

"The HT Studio 20 Overdrive Channel is characterised by a tone which is high in gain, but lacks any of the detached top-end ‘fizz’ often found in many similar designs. This is a result of unique preamplifier and power amplifier shaping techniques, which also benefit the player in the way the overdrive cleans up beautifully as the guitar volume is reduced. Even at the most extreme settings, the Overdrive Channel remains natural sounding."

thomasross20

Tone is so subjective though... which is why you get the top and bottom 10% in reviews. Some folk say Blackstar sounds bland but I think I'd be one of those 10% who says they don't like Marshall. Or maybe it was just the Jubilee. I never tried a DSL.

Adamski

It's funny how everyones ears are different because I've tried most of those amps when I was looking for a small head and the Blackstar would be close to the bottom of that list to me! 

Glad you you took the time to possibly make a less obvious choice and go with your ears and your heart. Very commendable! 

thomasross20

More than one person has said that same thing but it really works for me. Highly individual, all this stuff. 
I was in there for hours but it was well worth it - I'd never buy something I couldn't try in person now. 
It might have been a boring conclusion but Blackstar really does work for me. 
Need to make sure the dirty on my MJW is spot-on for what I want as I find that's what can make or break it for me. 

On paper the Atma was the perfect amp for me so it was a surprise!

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

I checked and the Blackstar is all-valve.

No it isn't!

This is something that really pisses me off about Blackstar and their marketing. They *have* now stopped referring to them as "all valve" in all literature, but the original false claim has stuck and is still used in many reviews and shop advertising.

The HT-20 is a hybrid just like the HT-5 and all other HT-series amps. (The 20 and larger may have a valve phase inverter, I'm not certain - I'd need to check the schematics.)

Don't be afraid of liking or even preferring a hybrid amp - it's the marketing and snobbery which is wrong, not the sound.

As I've always said, I actually prefer hybrid signal chains too - but it was a real wrench for me to admit to myself that I did actually prefer solid-state distortion into a valve amp than an all-valve sound.

As does everyone who uses an expensive all-valve amp and runs an expensive Tube Screamer copy in front of it .

I was not surprised by the way .

thomasross20

Hold on - so just to be clear... which bits are not valve that you might expect to be? 

You did say I liked the Blackstar sound but until recently I'd only played the ID260 so I didn't know myself. But I definitely like the Blackstar sound. Maybe hybrid is the way to go. 

Chuffola

thomasross20 said:

Now the runner-up......... I only tried this as the folk at the till were busy and saw the new design of their amps. The Fender bassman 15W!! 

Do you mean the Bassbreaker 15?  Is there a Bassman 15?

If I'm right - I've been saying the same for months!!

Deadman

Cracking write up Thomas, very interesting. I'm in the same boat as you as my ID 30 sounds SO much more superior to the Blackstar Artisan I had, so you're not alone in some respects. I'll have to try the HT now.

Alnico

My HT20 Combo lasted 2 weeks before i sold it.
I will be made up for if you like it Tommy. I've often wondered whether or not i missed a trick with mine.

All Valve is just a type, not better, just different and it won't make a bit of difference until you and your band play the Albert Hall.

Well done and be happy with the sound you make, not the one you read about !

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Hold on - so just to be clear... which bits are not valve that you might expect to be?

I don't have the schematic so I'm guessing to an extent, but since the HT-20 only has two preamp valves it certainly can't be "all valve". My assumption would be that the preamp circuit is identical to the HT-5 - the same IC-gain followed by valve-distortion/tone stack driver arrangement, then an IC-driven FX loop (no point in that being valve), then a valve phase inverter (because with the EL34s, the power stage voltages may be too high for the transistors used in the smaller amps), then the valve power stage. The rectifier will also be solid-state, but it can be in an amp correctly described as all-valve by most people's reckoning.

Dave @ecc83 may be able to confirm, or deny .

thomasross20

Chuffola said:

thomasross20 said:

Now the runner-up......... I only tried this as the folk at the till were busy and saw the new design of their amps. The Fender bassman 15W!! 

Do you mean the Bassbreaker 15?  Is there a Bassman 15?

If I'm right - I've been saying the same for months!!

Err yeah, Bass breaker! Woops!

thomasross20

It says it has two ECC83s in there for pre-amp unless I read wrong..
And to confirm, I think it's PCB... lol.. which is fine. 

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

It says it has two ECC83s in there for pre-amp unless I read wrong..

Yes, but given the history of claims about these amps I wouldn't take anything as gospel without the schematic in hand . Some people regard the PI as part of the preamp, anyway.

thomasross20 said:

And to confirm, I think it's PCB... lol.. which is fine. 

Yes, like all the other amps you tried today .