Reidys says "no more rosewood" from Fender on *most* models

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    I suspect there is not enough pau ferro to make it a long term viable alternative.  Plantstiom grown rosewood may be closer, but has been tarred with the same brush as all other rosewood.

    Maple is the most sustainable fretboard and neck choice, ash and alder are fairly sustainable too. fender will always be able to offer authentically vintage woods even without rosewood.  
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4943
    I just don't get the reasons for the CITES restrictions on the use of rosewood for guitars.  The total used worldwide for guitar production must be pretty small.  I would support a policy of planting 50 trees for every single tree cut down - and having this planting recorded and monitored - but my understanding of the CITES controls is more about paperwork than anything else.  I could be wrong of course.....
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
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    I think Baked Maple would be a great alternative...

    I had it once on a Gibson and it was really nice.. The one I had looked very similar to Rosewood but felt  smoother too the touch.....

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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5834
    tony99 said:
    How will this effect us middle of the food chain bedroom noodlers?
    You'll be OK, so long as your Chopsticks aren't made from Rosewood ;)
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    Presumably that Custom Shop all-Rosewood George Harrison Tele is now worth more money, than the most money you could ever imagine, in the whole history of money?
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    Presumably that Custom Shop all-Rosewood George Harrison Tele is now worth more money, than the most money you could ever imagine, in the whole history of money?
    [YES I know I'm not supposed to be here.. but this is a perfect storm tho - no more rosewood fenders and talk of money by @richardhomer ??!!]

    I heard Terry Morgan has stockpiled a whole shed worth of Rosewood so he can build exact copies of Mexican Strats and Teles with rosewood boards - right down to the very last little detail. Tis True. Heard it on TGP.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    edited April 2017 tFB Trader
    Wait until everyone switches to ebony, that'll be next for cites along with whatever the big makers choose to plunder

    Has this stopped all the cheap Chinese shit coming over now, chibsons could actually go up in value 
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    Have read elsewhere that ebony is a probable target already for the next CITES convention in 2018...
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    Whitecat said:
    Have read elsewhere that ebony is a probable target already for the next CITES convention in 2018...
    It's the natural progression as the big makers find other alternatives

    I hate to think how much rosewood is and was wasted on really crap guitars and the quantitys used over the years

    It's very sad, especially for small scale builders

    I hope I'm long gone before there is no more good wood available to build with
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7751
    WezV said:
    I suspect there is not enough pau ferro to make it a long term viable alternative.  Plantstiom grown rosewood may be closer, but has been tarred with the same brush as all other rosewood.

    Maple is the most sustainable fretboard and neck choice, ash and alder are fairly sustainable too. fender will always be able to offer authentically vintage woods even without rosewood.  
    Wenge perhaps?
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    Bucket said:
    WezV said:
    I suspect there is not enough pau ferro to make it a long term viable alternative.  Plantstiom grown rosewood may be closer, but has been tarred with the same brush as all other rosewood.

    Maple is the most sustainable fretboard and neck choice, ash and alder are fairly sustainable too. fender will always be able to offer authentically vintage woods even without rosewood.  
    Wenge perhaps?


    I doubt there is enough of the stuff to go around, and I don't actually think it's s great fretboard wood unless perfectly quartersawn.  Looks nicer flatsawn but wears oddly.  (Ignore this when I make a flatsawn wenge fretboard guitar, I have a few)

    Any other wood that will do for now may not last long.  I think it makes more sense to look to sustainable woods and other materials and just get used to it. Certainly for the factories.




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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
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    Changes to Fender fingerboards - I wonder what the guitar playing public thought pattern was when in 1959 maple was dropped for a slab rosewood Brazilian fingerboard - Then further dismay when around late 62 Fender went from slab to Lam and around this period Brazilian went as well - Then later in the 60's maple came back, albeit on a 2 piece neck/fingerboard 

    On volume sales like Mex models, with lower profit margins, plus the issue of obtaining CITES for each shipment, with a separate request required for export and import (2 sets of paperwork for Fender), then you can see some logic for them - I can see baked maple been used on more 'budget based models' and the guitar industry quickly accepting this on products in teh volume end of the market

    Whitecat said:
    Have read elsewhere that ebony is a probable target already for the next CITES convention in 2018...
    Hasn't there been a ban or reduction in what was Ceylon ebony for a while - And talk about Taylor has purchased a large supply of Ebony and effectively cornered the market - Hence Gibson struggling to obtain Ebony for even top of the range models like LP Custom Historic models

    Rocker said:
    I just don't get the reasons for the CITES restrictions on the use of rosewood for guitars.  The total used worldwide for guitar production must be pretty small.  I would support a policy of planting 50 trees for every single tree cut down - and having this planting recorded and monitored - but my understanding of the CITES controls is more about paperwork than anything else.  I could be wrong of course.....
    There has been some talk of guitars been given a low usage exemption from cites but not for the guitar Industry to decide - so will see but I would not count on it
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    Taylor would be boned pretty hard if ebony goes onto the CITES appendices. They control most of the supply from West Africa - for themselves, but they also supply other builders. They put a huge investment into acquiring the mills, and a restriction on import/export would certainly be a spanner in the works. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    I think CITES need to look at this.  Maybe have exemptions for items containing less than 500g of the wood.  It would stop the Asian furniture market but allow things like guitar finger boards and violin tuning pegs.  Either that or they need to simplify the bureacracy.

    There has to be a place for responsibly sourced planation grown wood.  If CITES just kill all demand then no one will grow plantations and the situation will get worse.

    If CITES (or the government bureaucracies implementing it) don't come up with something more sensible then I wouldn't be surprised to see countries like India raising a stink and possibly even withdrawing.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
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    crunchman said:
    I think CITES need to look at this.  Maybe have exemptions for items containing less than 500g of the wood.  It would stop the Asian furniture market but allow things like guitar finger boards and violin tuning pegs.  Either that or they need to simplify the bureacracy.

    There has to be a place for responsibly sourced planation grown wood.  If CITES just kill all demand then no one will grow plantations and the situation will get worse.

    If CITES (or the government bureaucracies implementing it) don't come up with something more sensible then I wouldn't be surprised to see countries like India raising a stink and possibly even withdrawing.
    agree with you - India has signed up for CITES but apparently unhappy about latest restrictions as for around 30 years they have had a 'replenishment' program in place - sensible for them as why destroy your own business
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
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    still can't find anything official on this yet - My Custom Shop contact is not aware of such a policy - but they do have a team conference call later 
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    edited April 2017
    still can't find anything official on this yet - My Custom Shop contact is not aware of such a policy - but they do have a team conference call later 
    Cool, please keep us updated. Someone must've said something to more than one person as Peach Guitars also sort-of-confirmed/clarified privately.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
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    Whitecat said:
    still can't find anything official on this yet - My Custom Shop contact is not aware of such a policy - but they do have a team conference call later 
    Cool, please keep us updated. Someone must've said something to more than one person as Peach Guitars also sort-of-confirmed/clarified privately.
    see below - fresh update from Reidy's on that link - this is now on their site

    DISCLAIMER: Yesterday, we received information from Fender that they would not be using Rosewood as an option on future models. However, this morning, it has been clarified that this will only be the case on selected models, not the entire range. More updates to follow.

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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 2329
    I messaged a masterbuilder at the big F overnight and he replied that it wasn't going to affect the Custom Shop guitars as far as he was aware  but the lower end stuff Mex etc. Makes sense. 
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    It's still pretty big news if it's the entire production out of Mexico PLUS a few USA models. Reidy's alarmism seems to have bitten them a little though (or maybe Fender slapped their wrists...!)
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