Ibanez. Prestige v Premium?

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    I Own a prestige RG1550, have owned a few old RG550's and played a fair few premium models.  IMO which is a bit controversial, the newer ones are better guitars that the 80's ones based on the ones I've owned.  There isn't a lot, if any difference in quality between the Japanese prestige models and the Indonesian Premiums, but the prestige models represent amazing value for money used, my RG1550 cost me £400 with a set of Bare Knuckle Emeralds installed 
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    edited August 2017
    DLM said:

    @Alnico Yeah, the "not-a-JEM" thing started with the JEM 505/555/JR and basically comes down to Japanese = JEM

    The Indonesian (Premium) Universes have a very different vibrato system to the Japanese ones, especially the early ones.

    Picking through the Ibanez Rules website/Jemsite/Sevenstring/Metalguitarist selectively will get you a good overview. Rich Harris' forum posts are very informative on QC problems, he has to be seen as an authority IMO.

    Personally, I think that as soon as you want to use a vibrato system on a guitar, it becomes its heart, and had better be a good one. That means that it had better sound good and/or stay in tune (see Scott Henderson!). The Edge Zero is Ibanez current top-of-the-line system (outside the US, where they have patent infringement problems). I find my example frankly disappointing compared to my knackered old '91 Edge, which must be a German-made example. It works fine (though the feel is a bit different), but the metal is just not as hard. Moving metal parts wear and fail, its just a question of how fast. It's not as if we're not paying enough for the kit at current JEM/J-Custom prices.

    Thanks Dom,
    That makes a degree of sense now.
    I'll look all that up.

    BTW. ......I just found out recently that the edge zero II can wear the arm and socket from the original edge, so it can use the arm that has the little white torque bushings and, as my Iron label now has, the ultralight carbon arm.
    It's a revelation over the zero arm that has the screw cap torque setting and then clunks around like land rover suspension.

    The edge socket just bolts straight in, no drilling or mods, just be sure to get the spring and bolt/screw to make it a complete assembly.
    Total price of the mod kit is £27 with a standard edge arm or £67 with an ultra lite arm.
    I can get the part numbers and some pics of what i did to mine and post them when I get home if you like?
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    The mod kit info would be useful, thanks.

    Im going out in a mo and I expect to come home with a guitar!
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    edited August 2017
    The mod kit info would be useful, thanks.

    Im going out in a mo and I expect to come home with a guitar!
    Cool.
    I'll be home in a couple of hours. 
    I'll post it all when I get back.

    Good luck with the new one !!

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  • DLMDLM Frets: 2513

    Thanks for the offer, @Alnico, but my Edge Zero isn't clunky at all (yet), and I have a spare bushing for it if it does go that way.

    The Edge Zero bar, being one piece, looks a lot more solid than the standard Edge bars. I break at least one of the latter a year if I'm gigging/practising a lot. They always fail in the same place. I understand Vai goes through them like Skittles.

    The Edge Zero II seems a quite different proposition. I hate sloppy wang bars. :disgusted: @LeeCassidy gave me the invaluable tip of melting the white Edge torque bushings slightly with a flame to re-tension them when they've gone sloppy. I'm not as arm-sag-phobic as Reb Beach, but I do love a flutter every once in a while, and now my arm stays boingy for aaages! :)

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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    DLM said:

    Thanks for the offer, @Alnico, but my Edge Zero isn't clunky at all (yet), and I have a spare bushing for it if it does go that way.

    The Edge Zero bar, being one piece, looks a lot more solid than the standard Edge bars. I break at least one of the latter a year if I'm gigging/practising a lot. They always fail in the same place. I understand Vai goes through them like Skittles.

    The Edge Zero II seems a quite different proposition. I hate sloppy wang bars. :disgusted: @LeeCassidy gave me the invaluable tip of melting the white Edge torque bushings slightly with a flame to re-tension them when they've gone sloppy. I'm not as arm-sag-phobic as Reb Beach, but I do love a flutter every once in a while, and now my arm stays boingy for aaages! :)

    Ahaaaaaa. 
    That's helped me out a lot.

    There IS a difference between edge zero and zero II. 
    That makes more sense now.

    Yes I'm Talking about the daft one with the screw cap and no bushings.
    Yours is better from the start as you say.

    I get what you say about the arms on the edge but the new carbon arm is amazing.
    Twice the thickness, weighs almost the same as paper and is virtually unsnappable. 
    Also because it weighs very little it stays where you leave it.

    The tip about melting the bushes a little is genius. Mine have a clunk after just a week so that will definitely be employed on all of mine.
    Nice one.
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    edited August 2017
    As promised, here's what I've found out by modifying my Iron Label and it's Edge Zero II tremolo.

    First off, here's the guitar on day 1...

    http://i.imgur.com/J5vD9oq.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/SywjkLW.jpg

    and here's the arm and holder removed from the guitar.
    As you can see there is a torque bush at the top which adjusts arm tension but there's no bushing below that and that's where the arm is free to clunk around and has a fair amount of play in it....

    http://i.imgur.com/vfA208K.jpg

    So here's the part number of the arm socket/holder from the original 'Edge' Tremolo.
    I got mine from Alan at Ibanezguitarspares.co.uk but I'm sure Cottam guitars would also have these or could get them....

    http://i.imgur.com/hEBQvIC.jpg

    And here's the difference between the arm fitments.
    The new (Edge) arm has two little clip fitting bushes which stop play in the socket. I've removed one here so you can see the groove it goes into and how they fit. They're replaceable for when they wear out (Roughly £1 each).
    This photo also shows how much thicker the Carbon Ultralite arm is..

    http://i.imgur.com/xXtB2Jg.jpg

    And here's the new socket fitted to the guitar, it's just a ferrule nut under the baseplate and the new socket/holder fits the hole perfectly, no drilling or any modification, just bolt it on and use a deep 1/4"drive socket to tighten it....

    http://i.imgur.com/6wBDFgC.jpg

    The arm is now push fitting and the socket is much neater, plus you get to adjust the torque by removing one of the 2 bushes on the arm (or both of you want it with no resistance at all) and there's little to no play inside the socket.

    Here's the guitar with the carbon arm and the new Ibanez Sure Grip III knobs after i rewired it all with a new 85 pickup for the bridge position, moved the 81 into the Neck Position (Existing '60' neck pickup now spare), fitted EMG pots and switch, all solderless wiring harness and replaced the kill switch with a tone pot...

    http://i.imgur.com/lAy1IlH.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/n2IeJEk.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/CUSMhdk.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/KxbTNXP.jpg

    and here's the Tremolo springs it now uses which are a lot better than the standard ones.
    Even with 10 gauge strings I only have 2 springs fitted but the claw is quite far forwards. If I fit 3 HD springs the claw is way back in the cavity but I prefer using only 2. These are £5 a set from THIS place here

    http://i.imgur.com/gDIuyhg.jpg

    .......and they're also fitted to my Strat which again, uses on 2 of them on 10 gauge strings.
    Here's the Strat and that's how far back the claw is, they're very powerful springs but with only 2 of them the tremolo arm action is featherlight......

    http://i.imgur.com/4znrLxp.jpg

    Hope some of this is at least interesting, maybe even helpful.




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  • StefBStefB Frets: 2331
    JDE said:
    As an aside, Coda have (had?) ab RG1550 in their Used section for £500 - if I wanted to save some cash, I'd get that and a set of Evos or Gravity Storms if I wanted a budget Jem. Well under the cost of a Premium Blue Floral, but a better guitar, imo. 

    Also, there's actually nowt wrong with the stock Ibby pickups, but it's hard to compare a guitar with top line Dimarzio's to one without, that's all :)

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    edited August 2017
    StefB said:
    JDE said:
    As an aside, Coda have (had?) ab RG1550 in their Used section for £500 - if I wanted to save some cash, I'd get that and a set of Evos or Gravity Storms if I wanted a budget Jem. Well under the cost of a Premium Blue Floral, but a better guitar, imo. 

    Also, there's actually nowt wrong with the stock Ibby pickups, but it's hard to compare a guitar with top line Dimarzio's to one without, that's all

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
    Jesus !!!
    That's insane.

    If I could, I would.........
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  • StefBStefB Frets: 2331
    Alnico said:
    StefB said:
    JDE said:
    As an aside, Coda have (had?) ab RG1550 in their Used section for £500 - if I wanted to save some cash, I'd get that and a set of Evos or Gravity Storms if I wanted a budget Jem. Well under the cost of a Premium Blue Floral, but a better guitar, imo. 

    Also, there's actually nowt wrong with the stock Ibby pickups, but it's hard to compare a guitar with top line Dimarzio's to one without, that's all

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
    Jesus !!!
    That's insane.

    If I could, I would.........

    It was making my credit card itch, I must admit.
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    StefB said:
    Alnico said:
    StefB said:
    JDE said:
    As an aside, Coda have (had?) ab RG1550 in their Used section for £500 - if I wanted to save some cash, I'd get that and a set of Evos or Gravity Storms if I wanted a budget Jem. Well under the cost of a Premium Blue Floral, but a better guitar, imo. 

    Also, there's actually nowt wrong with the stock Ibby pickups, but it's hard to compare a guitar with top line Dimarzio's to one without, that's all

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
    Jesus !!!
    That's insane.

    If I could, I would.........

    It was making my credit card itch, I must admit.
    I don't have one.

    Good thing probably
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    StefB said:

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
    @fretmeister you could do a lot worse that but this - I don't need another RG but if thats still there tomorrow I might have to!
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  • EvilmagsEvilmags Frets: 5158
    John_A said:
    StefB said:

    The RG1550 at Coda has been reduced to £299 today, so someone had better get a wriggle on for a ridiculous bargain - https://www.coda-music.com/summer-sale/ibanez-prestige-rg1550-phantom-blue-secondhand.html
    @fretmeister you could do a lot worse that but this - I don't need another RG but if thats still there tomorrow I might have to!
    Are they that unfashionable.  Fuck me that is a deal. 
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    They also have a new badcat bobcat 5/100 on there at£499 which I really dont need, but it seems too cheap to be true
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    I went to PMT today to try out a Blue Floral.

    I loved the neck. Absolutely gorgeous. Unfortunately on this example the trem system was faulty. It was catching on something giving a weird clicking on the way back up after bombing. Was't the bar collar, we took that off to try it. I;ve had tons of trems in the past, but this was a new one on me.

    NOT the shop's fault in the slightest -  it was transferred from elsewhere and arrived at the shop after I did. So they couldn't even check it before I saw it.

    They are getting another one in for thursday so I'll try that then. If all is good then I'll have it.

    If not, then I'll look at a Prestige instead, even if I don't get my Vai / Liberace fix!
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  • DLMDLM Frets: 2513

    Aw, that doesn't sound like fun. :(

    The Dutch seller who often has Ibanezes has an example of the original BFP at the moment:

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/1991-Ibanez-JEM-77-BFP-Blue-Floral-Pattern-Original-Vintage-BFP-no-Premium-/282515210988?hash=item41c73802ec

    He's also got a VWH (with the ebony board) in for less money. I've seen these cheaper on here, but it's still an awful lot more guitar for the same money (comparing the Thomann price) as the Premium BFP

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ibanez-JEM-7-VWH-Steve-Vai-White-Gold-Ebony-Fretboard-Year-2003-/282568694821?hash=item41ca681c25

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  • DLMDLM Frets: 2513

    Oh yeah, nice photostory, @Alnico! That ultralight bar looks set to fail just where the old ones do, but really, it's my treatment of the things that's to blame, look:

    https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/202713_412647362117319_2093887191_o.jpg?oh=65c50c4763cbd01f010d4ae84a91dec9&oe=5A292060

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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    DLM said:

    Oh yeah, nice photostory, @Alnico! That ultralight bar looks set to fail just where the old ones do, but really, it's my treatment of the things that's to blame, look:

    https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/202713_412647362117319_2093887191_o.jpg?oh=65c50c4763cbd01f010d4ae84a91dec9&oe=5A292060

    Thanks Dom.

    I really use the bar but even with HD springs I can't see it snapping, maybe it will I don't know but I get what you mean about where it's still prone. 
    Before I bought it i thought it would be thicker right round to the mounting point.
    It's still awesome though.

    This thread is not helping me wait until next year for my JEM.
    Just last week I considered trading everything in for a Jem but a few hours playing them all cured that.
    Now it's all starting again because a JEM is a JEM and GAS is a bitch. 

    It helps that the 3 guitars I could trade don't add up to the value of a JEM because if they did I think it would have happened by now.
    The other 3 are just too valuable to me to even consider it.
    The Strat is with me for life, the Telecaster was a very special gift and 'The one that shall remain nameless for now' beats a JEM hands down and I've only just got it so that only leaves the other 3.
    I CAN wait.
    It CAN be done.
    This thread is NOT tempting me at all.
    I'm strong.

    Fuck this thread.
    Lol
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