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problem i I have with that is that I do think the differences between speaker models are enough to matter live, so I want the FOH sound to reflect what my amp actually sounds like, which is a choice I've made.
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I have a flexi mic arm on my combo stand which holds it exactly where I like, halfway between cone and edge, about an inch from the cloth.
You can just drape it through the amp handle, but it rarely stays put IME.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Some of us are old enough to remember no monitors and a HH 100w top with a speaker either side.
Well anyway I talked about using monitors and the disadvantages of high volume onstage and also so many mics. I thought I would use a peavey classic 30 with EDI box fitted in back and a SM57 on front of amp on stand pointing between center and outside edge of cone.
Now I used no EQ on either just kept both flat EQ and as I had a guitarist playing asked audience of which there were quite a few guitarists which is mic and which is EDI box, no one was confident enough to say they could tell, so as I had the guitarist moving round stage I asked him to accidentally knock mic stand enough to make mic move about an inch, now the sound understandably changed as mic was no longer pointing at same spot.
now I know some of you use the flat type mic hanging over top of amp so that takes that issue out of argument, but I started thinking if I could really tell the difference, and to be honest I think there are subtleties that can be lost but in a live gig situation whEre each room is different and we EQ our amps and effects differently to cope with it I thought it wasn't worth hassle to use a mic. And never have since. Every sound engineer has found it really easy to get a good sound from it and funny thing is, I think it seems to work better with Marshall amps than with Peavey.
When I did my last studio recording with my country band, the sound engineer wanted to use his own crossed mics system of mic'ing up where I wanted to use the traditional sm57 and another ambient mic. He kept saying his system worked brilliantly so as we had about 10-15 mins before drummer got there we tried his system the traditional system and my DI box, my DI box came 2nd to the tried and trusted SM57 and an ambient mic.
For live use I won't think of using anything else. Don't even know how much they are now, used to be £43 back in early 90's. Probably as much as a mic now.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
I originally had it in my old Marshall JCM 800 1x12 4010 combo. I honestly could not tell difference between speaker and PA sound. On the Peavey I could as it sounded slightly better than stock speaker. I actually glued it onto side wall of my EXcelsior amp now and its permanently on through the PA, I leave amp on same setting every night and just turn PA channel up or down depending on venue.
I thought it sounded far better than the Palmer Red Box which you also had to power by 9v battery and which was twice the price at the time.
Will get a pic of amp later with EDI. Not trying to convert anyone it's just something I will never get rid of, mate has borrowed amp and used it as well and thought it jworked spot on.
I know that introducing a mic into the chain is a source of problems, as evidenced by the colouration my 906 lends to the sound, to my ear anyway. Last weekend I used an SM58 instead, pointing directly at the side of the cone - with the amp facing the back of the stage, which is how I normally do it - and it sounded really amazing. Crisp, raw and faithful.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
The only suggestion I would make is that if possible and the amp has one, always use a second speaker jack (either 'extension' or one of the other impedance taps) to connect separately to the box, rather than running *through* the box to the speakers. There's no difference in the signal the box gets, but running the speaker current through it is potentially more risky to the amp, because you're introducing another cable, two jacks and plugs, and several solder connections into the signal path - if any one of these fails the amp will be left with no load. You also don't need to use a speaker cable if you're just connecting the box separately to the amp, because it is no longer carrying the speaker current. (The only exception is that if the extension speaker jack automatically switches the amp's impedance, or is in series with the internal speaker, but that's fairly rare.)
I agree with koneguitarist - the sound out front is so heavily dependent on the PA, and especially if the EQ is not left flat, that it's a moot point as to whether what the audience hears bears any relation to your carefully chosen speaker type at all. Mic placement when right up against the grille can also make the sound *very* different from what you think the cab sounds like from even a few feet away - and if you move the mic an inch it can drastically change too.
I'll usually just go with what the soundman wants. Some want to use their own mics, some won't use anyone else's DI box, some don't care. I have a 57 and a Red Box which cover the remaining options - the Red Box can also be used in an emergency to replace the amp entirely and go from pedalboard direct to PA.
It could be worse, you could be playing bass... many sound engineers still like to insist on DI'ing the *bass*, not the amp - so what the audience hears has nothing to do with the sound on stage from your expensive bass amp at all.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
With the EDI it was designed to replicate the tone of a Celestions 12" and comparing it with old Marshall bears that out.
As for bass DI, I actually like a clean pure bass tone so prefer the DI output and use amp low vol onstage. With my band the bassist has a GK rig with 4x10" cab, very really put it through PA, and even then I EQ desk so it sounds as much like his amp out front sound just louder.
Years ago I was asked to dep on bass at a NYE gig at a large venue where I was asked to use the stack provided by main band, who then told me not to mess with any controls?
So I used a DI box to PA then into amp, and had his bass amp so low you could hardly hear it offstage. The bassist rushed up to me after our set saying how good my 63 jazz bass was with his amp. When he looked at volumes of his amp, he was so pissed off realising what I had done as he either had to do a full sound check or go with same sound using his bass.
Im the guy that in the studio I don't even take a bass amp.
This is really interesting. Because I always struggle to hear myself on stage, even if I'm flapping the crowds' trousers out front. However I can easily hear the drums and bass.
Maybe what I need is my amp head behind me, a longish lead to a 1x12 or 2x12 angled cab out front, to use asy own personal monitor; then DI (or mic, come to think of it) to the desk.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
I agree you lose something though, especially with Ampeg 8 x 10"s which have a lovely growl . There was a time I was mic;ing as well with a Beta 52 or similar but there was generally too much spill from other instruments on the small stages
http://www.tulmicrophones.com/G12.html