That perfect tone.... is it an illusion?

robgilmo · May 2018

Its the knob that isnt the volume knob, if your guitar doesnt have one , then you need to sell it and buy one that does.

Rabs · May 2018

<p>Actually ive been keeping this quite..</p><p>This is the REAL secret behind more tone

</p><p>https://i.imgur.com/ENxuxAC.jpg</p>;

Bucket · May 2018

Sometimes I can play and it's almost a transcendental experience, then come back to the exact same sound with the same guitar a day or two later and not be feeling it at all. State of mind definitely comes into it.

ATB_Guitars · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/14093/mr-mac">mr-mac</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">I'd say no. It's when a players hands, pick, touch, setup etc... Guitar, any efx and the amplifier all come together to form something special. <br><br>tbh your more likely to get it by practising and when ready to choose equipment going out and playing and auditioning a pile of kit then you ever would be buying something that sounded good with xyz artist or in a demo video.<br><br><br></div> </blockquote> I agree. I get a fair few extremely good players in my store trying out the vintage stock and it is interesting to note they will often migrate to their own characteristic 'home' tone whatever guitar they pick up, In so much as players used to Teles who try a 335 or similar, will often use more of their nail when picking to try to emulate the Tele bite they are used to.<br><br>That being said, it is often surprising how particular these guys can be when it comes to the tiniest perceived differences in tone to their own ear... I cannot hear that much difference when I am listening, which I guess does indicate this tone is largely in the ear of the beholder.<br><br>I think there is a lot more variance in the tone of vintage instruments compared to todays CNC machined, modern guitars. I also think Fenders have more diversity of 'tone' than Gibsons do. Maybe it is the combination of body mass and/or the way the ash or alder ages compared to Gibson's mahogany but I guarantee you two 60's Teles or Strats with identical set ups, strings amps etc will sound subtly, but noticeably different in tone. But hey, this is all part of the fun of vintage which for many is a big part of the appeal...<br>

kswilson89 · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/20/octatonic">octatonic</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">What people are buying is an emotion.<br>The problem is it is fleeting.<br><br>The way to deal with it is simply to stop trying to fill a hole in yourself with 'a thing'.<br>Throw yourself into your playing and then it doesn't matter about the gear- you can still buy instruments as you can afford to but it isn't necessary.<br><br>I didn't buy a guitar for about 2 years- I've bought 3 this year- because I had the cash and wanted them, not based on the illusion they would make me a better player.<br>I've said (more than once) that if people spent 1/10th the time working on transcription that they spent obsessing over minute differences in tone then they'd be much better musicians.<br></div> </blockquote> This 100%

DrJazzTap · May 2018

I think a lot of it is subjective. If you're the guitarist you can hear the nuances more than anybody else. That might be a psychosomatic thing. <br>For instance if I play a large open G chord on my SG with a crunch sound and then the same on my DGT. I'll hear more top and bottom on the DGT and a more pronounced mid range honk on the SG. If I played that to a non guitarist they might say one is brighter etc but they won't agree that the price difference between the two guitars is justified. <br>I believe a more expensive amp and guitar will generally sound better. But the price difference is something guitarists justify to themselves (I'm as guilty as anyone else)<br>I agree 110% with bucket about it being a mental state of mind thing. If I don't play for a few weeks, I'm far more at ease when I pick a guitar up. And sometimes you just have off days.

Grunfeld · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/17364/flying_pie">flying_pie</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">This is it summed up perfectly in less than 3 minutes <br><br></div> </blockquote><div> Totally.</div><div>It clicked for me years ago when I was doing recording and this was doing the rounds at the time:</div><div><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Grey_square_optical_illusion.svg/2000px-Grey_square_optical_illusion.svg.png" alt="" title="Image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Grey_square_optical_illusion.svg/2000px-Grey_square_optical_illusion.svg.png"></div><div>A and B are the same shade but they look so different because of the surrounding contexts.</div><div>Easy leap of imagination to realise that's exactly what happens to tone.</div><div><br></div>

amarok1971 · May 2018

they look the same to me?<br><br>

Grunfeld · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amarok1971</a> said:</div> <div>they look the same to me?<br><br></div> </blockquote><div>They don't to most people. Most people see A and B on backgrounds of two distinctly <i>different</i> shades.<br></div><div>It's basically a fairly well-known example of Adelson's illusion -- quite detailed explanation <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.illusionsindex.org/ir/checkershadow">here</a>. <br></div><div>You could be an exception. And there's a phenomenon of participation in psychology experiments, also fairly well-known to researchers, where this is known to happen and affect scoring.<br></div><div>But for most people the picture is a visual illustration of what happens to your guitar tone depending on what's playing around you (or what isn't!). <br></div>

mr-mac · May 2018

<span class="vanilla-mention-@">@ATB_Guitars wonder if the neck wood has more varience or maybe scratchplate material due to size of plate and mounting of pickups it probs can effect things more than a humbucker ring or pickup mounted direct to body.</span>

amarok1971 · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/49/Grunfeld">Grunfeld</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amarok1971</a> said:</div> <div>they look the same to me?<br><br></div> </blockquote><div>They don't to most people. Most people see A and B on backgrounds of two distinctly <i>different</i> shades.<br></div><div>It's basically a fairly well-known example of Adelson's illusion -- quite detailed explanation <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.illusionsindex.org/ir/checkershadow">here</a>. <br></div><div>You could be an exception. And there's a phenomenon of participation in psychology experiments, also fairly well-known to researchers, where this is known to happen and affect scoring.<br></div><div>But for most people the picture is a visual illustration of what happens to your guitar tone depending on what's playing around you (or what isn't!). <br></div></div> </blockquote> sorry i misread it as SHAPE lol, yes they do look a different shade

Grunfeld · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amarok1971</a> said:</div><div>sorry i misread it as SHAPE lol, yes they do look a different shade <img alt="3" src="http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/blush.png" height="18"></div> </blockquote>haha, makes sense now!<br>

rossi · May 2018

I think that between guitars its often just a difference ,probably unmeasurable in the way the coiils are wound and pots made ,caps made ,.I worked in a coil winding shop,it wound larger coils and coils for resistors etc and the plus /minus quality control was usually generous.If it wasnt ,production stopped and all hell broke loose as we tried to wind ,machine and by hand ,exactly to spec .So take say a 10% plus or minus on the pickup ,add in the same from pots and pretty soon you have a fairly wide variety of difference either way.Thats before the same is applied to all the specs of amp componants .Throw in your strings which will not only vary slightly , not stay the same as they wear out ,the player ,the variation in the way you hit the string ,the pickup height,pick , and its easy to see why one guitar may well be heaven and the so called exactly the same guitar to sound not so good .<br>

Barnezy · May 2018

I guess it’s completely subjective.... I mean what is a good tone? It’s all in the context of the music. I guess for most hobby guitarists it’s more about tone replication or just finding a tone that they like, but as mentioned there are so many variables to this and the guitar is only a one part. <br><br>I disagree that setup only affects feel. In my experience it can change a tone dramatically, especially when you start playing with things like pole hieghts on the pups. <br>

Clarky · May 2018

I think a big factor in tone is how the guitar makes you feel when you play it..<br>if it plays really well it can bring out the best in your playing so you can perceive it as having better tone

HAL9000 · May 2018

There are good tones and bad Tones.<br><br>Examples of good Tones include Iommi, Curtis, and Bennett.<br><br>An example of a bad Tone would be Blair.

guitars4you · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/276/Clarky">Clarky</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">I think a big factor in tone is how the guitar makes you feel when you play it..<br>if it plays really well it can bring out the best in your playing so you can perceive it as having better tone</div> </blockquote> agree - I always play any potential purchase unplugged first - if it doesn't feel right and comfortable to handle, then everything else can go in the bin - The more comfortable you are with this aspect of the guitars performance then the more it will enrich your technique - Then go from there - Almost as though you can't get a good tone if it doesn't feel/play right<br><br>Granted if it plays/feels right, then it doesn't necessarily mean the guitars natural tone will be to your taste - ie you might want hot pick-ups or vintage pick-ups - So often all tick boxes need to be given the green light to complete the whole package - But any initial evaluation to me is unplugged

flying_pie · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/331/HAL9000">HAL9000</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">There are good tones and bad Tones.<br><br>Examples of good Tones include Iommi, Curtis, and Bennett.<br><br>An example of a bad Tone would be Blair. </div> </blockquote> There are also Schrodinger's tones which are both bad and good at the same time. Neil Young and Dimebag Darrell being classic examples

carlos · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/18852/ATB_Guitars">ATB_Guitars</a> said:<br><br>I think there is a lot more variance in the tone of vintage instruments compared to todays CNC machined, modern guitars. I also think Fenders have more diversity of 'tone' than Gibsons do. Maybe it is the combination of body mass and/or the way the ash or alder ages compared to Gibson's mahogany but I guarantee you two 60's Teles or Strats with identical set ups, strings amps etc will sound subtly, but noticeably different in tone. But hey, this is all part of the fun of vintage which for many is a big part of the appeal...</div> </blockquote> A load of bollocks by someone with a business interest in perpetuating a marketing narrative that pays their bills. <br><br>As for the discussion, £500 spent on lessons or learning time will improve your tone much more than £500 extra on the price of gear. <br>Having said that, placebo effect is very important especially in something as subjective as tone.

dindude · May 2018

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/193/carlos">carlos</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/18852/ATB_Guitars">ATB_Guitars</a> said:<br><br>I think there is a lot more variance in the tone of vintage instruments compared to todays CNC machined, modern guitars. I also think Fenders have more diversity of 'tone' than Gibsons do. Maybe it is the combination of body mass and/or the way the ash or alder ages compared to Gibson's mahogany but I guarantee you two 60's Teles or Strats with identical set ups, strings amps etc will sound subtly, but noticeably different in tone. But hey, this is all part of the fun of vintage which for many is a big part of the appeal...</div> </blockquote> A load of bollocks by someone with a business interest in perpetuating a marketing narrative that pays the bills.<br></div> </blockquote> Or one mans opinion, put together like an adult, unlike yours?<br><br><br>

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That perfect tone.... is it an illusion?

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