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Right.....been rehearsing for a while with a band (4 piece) with a view to playing some gigs. We are playing a charity work night thing where we will be doing 1 song maybe 2. But since we've been rehearsing we'd like to keep it going. My question is, at the moment we just rehearse with Guitar Amp, Bass Amp, Roland electronic drumkit, with the vocalist going through the same amp as the drumkit on a separate channel. All very basic, to say the least but as this all came about with the intention of playing a song or two, we were never going to start buying equipment. But as that is changing we'd like to look at sounding a bit better. We have no more inputs/channels to accommodate any more mics, or keyboard.
So are we at the point where the most efficient way of handling this is to get a mixer with more inputs and some sort of largish speaker for the vocals,keyboards and drums probably (as they are currently going through a guitar amp) (it actually surprisingly sounds better than your thinking!) to go through? What do people normally do for rehearsing?
I have no idea on what is required, mixers/powered mixers/speakers/ etc etc.
Any pointers would be good. Don't want to spend a fortune, but at the same time, if we are going to invest, perhaps go for something expandible if required for gigging.
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Most large stores (Gear4music, GAK, etc.) do bundles with most of what you need at a lower price than buying the bits separately. You might also want to think about a monitor for the singer.
If if it goes well you’ll know it’s worth buying some gear but you can easily sink a lot of cash into sounding good - especially if you’re using an electric kit as opposed to just being able to get away with a small pa for vocals.
The reason for avoiding 15" speakers if possible, although they were the most popular size 10-20 years ago, is that they're still not properly full-range for putting bass or kick drum through, but will conflict with proper subs if you add those, and often lack midrange punch and clarity for vocals. Although if you're intending to put a keyboard through it *without* adding subs, they might actually help.
Second choice would be a mixing desk - preferably one specifically designed for live use, with on-board reverb - and a pair of powered PA speakers. This is the modern solution and works well, but can be a little more complicated to set up - if nothing else you need more power points, but the desks also tend to be a bit more complex. It's also probably easier to expand later than the first option since the desk will most likely have more output options. You can add subs and monitors in the same way.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
add that to icbm's idea of box mixer amp or a smaller mixer and older heavier pa amp ans mixer.
I see a lot of bands starting up with just a couple of mains, without monitors for the vocals, and I think it's a big mistake. Like it or not the singer is the face of the band and he/she needs to hear himself clearly to perform.
Collision rock band
https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Wireless-In-Ear-Monitor-System-by-Gear4music/OUE
MT1200... when men were men and a PA rack weighed as much as a small house...
https://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/amcron-mt-1200-99612.jpg
I bet that lot sounds absolutely great, but I do understand why most people have moved on from that technology.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Thanks @andyoz although Ive a few "noobie style" questions if you can bear with me. (Being in NI, that first link would be handy enough)...So....Why would the that ZED FX10 only have enough inputs for vox? If we only had one lead and 1 backing, are the other inputs not suitable for an electronic drumkit/keyboard whatever or even if guitar was mic-ed?
With Bass and Kick (Is that assuming an acoustic kit?) , why not put it through without subs?
If you were doing this first time would you go powered mixer or active speakers. Cheers
If you're intending to run kick and usually if you're intending to run bass through the PA, subs are a requirement not optional. Just because the main cabs often have 15" drivers doesn't mean they can handle proper sub frequencies like a dedicated sub cabinet can - in fact it's better to use smaller tops (12" or even 10") and subs than try to do it all with full-range 15" cabs.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Really depends on budget and inconvenience.
The main issue with PA gear is getting clean headroom. Virtually all PA faults are caused by pushing the PA too hard.
There are several options open to you.
1) Active PA boxes and mixer.
This is way most people go now for pub gigs.
The advantages are that the speakers should be matched to the speakers, it generally makes for a lighter compact PA system.
If you want to up date this system your old speakers can be used as monitors.
The best value active PA speakers I've found are the old RCF 200a. These sound fantastic and go for under £100.
You also have a wider choice of mixers, so can find one with the features you need.
2) Passive speakers, power amp mixer.
This would be the most inconvenient solution due to weight / size, however there are some real bargains out precisely because of this.
Old "boat anchor" Peavey gear is great value here.
3) Passive speakers, powered mixer.
This may be the cheapest solution, and there is plenty of decent used gear out there, however you may need to compromise somewhat on mixer features.
There are plenty of options, including Yamaha and Peavey units mention above. The Soundcraft Power Station is also great unit that can be picked up cheap, and has a nice mixer with it.
re the Allen & Heath 10fx, this has 4 mic inputs and 2 stereo inputs, so you can run the electronic drum kit through one of the stereo inputs. This is a well-specified mixer with fx, swept mid, high pass filter, prefade listen, channel mutes. It can run one monitor mix, which may be a problem if you want to run an electronic drum kit and bass through the PA as the drummer and simger/s may have different monitoring requirements.
re running the bass drum / bass through the PA with subs, is NOT a good idea as both these instruments can suck up a lot of power from the PA and make it hard get a loud clean vocal. I've seen tons of gigs where this has been a problem. In fact I saw a gig last night where the bass drum was WAY too loud.
The obsession with micing the bass drum has ruined many a gig.