Jazz blues chords

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  • viz said:
    Roland said:
    Don’t be afraid to focus on the principle chords, and treat some of the other notes as incidentals,  rather than chords in their own right.
    Very true. I dun a jazz blues here, with passing notes rather than full diminished chords. Shoddy I know!

    https://youtu.be/cklYR21TcNE
    Great breakdown there, really demystified a lot of what I was stuck on, thanks a lot. I'm going to get to work on that other tune I posted on Friday morning.
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  • kswilson89kswilson89 Frets: 222
    edited January 2019
    viz said:
    Yep, for example it often sets up a 251. You have to be on some sort of chord before a 251; that chord is often a 1. (Or a 4 or a 5 or many other chords, of course. But a I-ii is definitely not odd)

    Anyhoo this intro noodling he’s doing is just that. A nice gentle intro noodle. Try analysing the song from 0:28 and see what you come up with. Cheers
    Hi again

    I've done my best to analyse the song and this is what I've come up with. I haven't included every triad inversion or diminished passing chord, just what I see as the main harmony. The main part goes:

    G6 - B7 - Cmaj6 - D7 - D#dim - Em7 - Am6 - D7 - G
    (I)   (III7)    (IV)        (V)                       (VI)         (ii)       (V)    (I)

    The second part at around 1:00, "I used to...":

    G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj6 - B7 - A7 - D7 - D7 (2nd inv.)
    (I7)    (IV)                         (III7) (II7)  (V7)

    Am I right in thinking there's a VI II V I at 2:19?

    and then the end goes:

    G - G7 - C - C#dim - G6/9 (1st inv.)
    (I)  (V7) (IV)                 (I)


    This seems to be it to me. Is there anything I have missed? Is there a reason why the III7 works so well? Normally when I see this its moving to the VI rather than the IV.
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    Also worth remembering you can approach the chords from a fret below or fret above  before each change ...even just using 3 chords this can really jazz things up when mixed up and messed about with not a lot of new chords 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited January 2019
    viz said:
    Yep, for example it often sets up a 251. You have to be on some sort of chord before a 251; that chord is often a 1. (Or a 4 or a 5 or many other chords, of course. But a I-ii is definitely not odd)

    Anyhoo this intro noodling he’s doing is just that. A nice gentle intro noodle. Try analysing the song from 0:28 and see what you come up with. Cheers
    Hi again

    I've done my best to analyse the song and this is what I've come up with. I haven't included every triad inversion or diminished passing chord, just what I see as the main harmony. The main part goes:

    G6 - B7 - Cmaj6 - D7 - D#dim - Em7 - Am6 - D7 - G
    (I)   (III7)    (IV)        (V)                       (VI)         (ii)       (V)    (I)

    The second part at around 1:00, "I used to...":

    G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj6 - B7 - A7 - D7 - D7 (2nd inv.)
    (I7)    (IV)                         (III7) (II7)  (V7)

    Am I right in thinking there's a VI II V I at 2:19?

    and then the end goes:

    G - G7 - C - C#dim - G6/9 (1st inv.)
    (I)  (V7) (IV)                 (I)


    This seems to be it to me. Is there anything I have missed? Is there a reason why the III7 works so well? Normally when I see this its moving to the VI rather than the IV.
    Nicely done!

    the III-IV is quite common (Dock of the Bay, Creep, etc) but you’re right it’s probably more common to use it as a secondary dominant in a III-VI or III-vi. 

    That 6251 is a bit weird because the 6 isn’t quite an E7 or E7b10. But yep it’s basically a 6251-ish turnaround.

    Couple of interesting things that occur to me:

    1) these dim chords like the D#dim on the first line - it works so nicely because it is VERY similar to a B7b9 without the root. D# dim is D# F# A C, which is basically an absent B (the missing root), D#, F#, A, C. So if you were to think of it as B7b9 1st inv (sans B ), that would make it a secondary dominant to the following chord, the Em. That’s why it works so well. It’s as good as dammit a V-i cadence. I’m not saying it should be written as B7b9/D#(no B ) - that’d be bizarre, but that’s the reason it’s so smooth a linking chord. 

    2) Your last V7 is strictly speaking supposed to be written V7/IV because it’s not the V chord, it’s still the I chord, but you want to emphasize its role as a secondary dominant (rather than spelling it I7 or Ib7 or something), so the “correct” spelling is V7/IV. 


    Barney said:
    Also worth remembering you can approach the chords from a fret below or fret above  before each change ...even just using 3 chords this can really jazz things up when mixed up and messed about with not a lot of new chords 
    Ya, that’s good. Barney show your awesome 251 noodle, that was fantastic. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • 1) these dim chords like the D#dim on the first line - it works so nicely because it is VERY similar to a B7b9 without the root. D# dim is D# F# A C, which is basically an absent B (the missing root), D#, F#, A, C. So if you were to think of it as B7b9 1st inv (sans B ), that would make it a secondary dominant to the following chord, the Em. That’s why it works so well. It’s as good as dammit a V-i cadence. I’m not saying it should be written as B7b9/D#(no B ) - that’d be bizarre, but that’s the reason it’s so smooth a linking chord. 

    2) Your last V7 is strictly speaking supposed to be written V7/IV because it’s not the V chord, it’s still the I chord, but you want to emphasize its role as a secondary dominant (rather than spelling it I7 or Ib7 or something), so the “correct” spelling is V7/IV. 

    Thanks very much for getting back. So point number 1) you made there, is that tri-tone substitution? Or is that something else entirely? And thanks for the correction, it was obviously a I7 wasn't it, not V7, doh!
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited January 2019
    It’s not a tritone sub, that’s where the major 3rd and flat 7th (which are a tritone apart) swap roles, meaning the chord also has to slip up or down a tritone. So In a 251, instead of Dm-G7-C (G7 has a B and F as its 3rd and 7th), you do Dm-Db7-C (where Db7 has F and B as its 3rd and 7th)! The chords could not be further apart from each other but they share two crucial notes. 

    Awesome stuff. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • viz said:
    It’s not a tritone sub, that’s where the major 3rd and flat 7th (which are a tritone apart) swap roles, meaning the chord also has to slip up or down a tritone. So In a 251, instead of Dm-G7-C (G7 has a B and F as its 3rd and 7th), you do Dm-Db7-C (where Db7 has F and B as its 3rd and 7th)! The chords could not be further apart from each other but they share two crucial notes. 

    Awesome stuff. 
    Thanks, that makes a lot more sense, such a useful trick to know!
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