Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

I dont think Helix is for me.

What's Hot
245

Comments

  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    I reckon everything sounds like the best thing since sliced bread while you own it, but not as good as your new gear after you have replaced it. Of course the more you pay the better it sounds  ;)
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • Regarding Helix Native, the biggest cost of the hardware Helix is not the software but the actual analog ins and outs. When I see people saying that they can’t get a reasonable sound out of Native, I always wonder what they use as an interface. Plugging into the instrument in on a budget preamp is not going to necessarily yield great results. The in on the hardware Helix is designed to behave like the input of an amp. You hit it with an overdrive pedal, the amp sim behaves accordingly. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • StevepageStevepage Frets: 3037
    My Helix LT has made me sell my amp on. Now it's just the Helix and an Alto speaker. I'm really pleased that I know have everything I've been looking for and it sounds brilliant.

    https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/maliciousteve/20190125_133307_zpsbkyhtguv.jpg
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I own a helix but much prefer my amp and pedals.
    My helix is used as a convenient recording interface.
    It's pretty much a clean amp setting. All effects come from my pedals as I prefer the sound.
    It's a good convenient package, I just don't think it sounds as good as most people make out
    And the opposite opinion from me. Helix has slowly become the only thing I use. I think you can get it to sound really, really good. Better than the naysayers make out :)

    probably depends what sounds you are going after.
    I have to start with a properly clean amp, I want something as close as possible to my hiwatt. That's my favourite amp sound so I gravitate towards it.
    So in the helix I add my amp, cab(s) mics, fuck about with all the parameters etc and play.
     Harsh artificats on the high end. Back in, global EQ and hi/low cut added. 
    Now it sounds ok but nothing like a hiwatt. You don't have to cut highs on a mic'd up hiwatt.
    You don't get any of the massive frequency range and magical fairy dust you get from the real hiwatt.
    Ok, it will probably be ok in the mix and I have soundtoys to sort it out.

    Then the effects section...
    All my opinion of course but the delays are ok, quite average for the most part, definitely two or three that are better than the rest, so I will generally use my mf104m or h9.
    Drives... Hmmm, one or two are ok but I find a driven amp sound generally works better so off to make another patch, fiddle, fiddle etc.
    Modulation. Choruses, phasers and flangers that would make the baby Jesus cry. Tremolo is great and the vibe I don't really care for as I am not a massive fan of the effects.
    Reverbs, not my thing typically, some are ok but again the h9 offers so much more.
    Pitch shifting... I'll leave that alone.

    I get the convenience, I get that it's most things to most players in a box at a good price and it's a dead handy recording interface but I feel like I have gone insane at times when I read the praise for it on here. It literally does no wrong walks on water and slices bread, that's just not my experience with it.

    After long periods of use it starts to sound normal and I get the appeal, I really do, but I personally feel it's not quite there yet. The good news is that it seems to be forever improving and for the most part is pretty fault free.
    However in contrast I do think the Kemper and the axefx sound better. More fiddly and more expensive but better sounding.

    Anyway I'm sure that will upset a huge section of the FX membership so I will stick my tongue foil hat on and go play some guitar (through my amp).

    To me it's just a difference of flavour. Not quality.

    I use my single stomps as much as - actually lately it's more than - my Helix. But that's not because I think the Helix is low quality. I just think they have different flavours.

    Like the way the delays decay away on the Helix is a bit different to the way the Source Audio Nemesis does it, and the way the Strymon Timeline does it. Sometimes I want the more diffuse 'distant' sounding thing from the Helix, and sometimes I want a really obnoxious digital delay sound from the Timeline.

    In terms of amp-simulation, some models on the Helix are the bomb dot com. Like the Placater. But the NeuralDSP Nameless amp-sim is kinda my go-to amp-sim right now. Actually has been since the tail end of last year.

    But I have a Diezel VH4 sat in my studio at home. If I just want to play guitar and I'm not bothered about recording any of it, I plug into that and don't bother with software.


    Totally get that mate. It's interesting you mention the decay because I nearly commented on that.
    I'd also agree that the amps associated with the heavier genres sound better. I have noticed I spent a fair amount of time fucking about with a bit of medicinal chug chug on the placater.

    I'm not knocking quality per say, perhaps it's more the choice of pedals that have been imitated that I don't like.
    I'm still holding fire on a fryette power station in anticipation of what's coming next.
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • duotoneduotone Frets: 971
    equalsql said:

    My only wish is that I could rename the factory FX and Amps to what their real life counterparts are. I know Line 6 can't name them as such due to licensing issues, but I don't see the harm in allowing end users to customise the names.
    I did this with the amps, just on their own in a patch with a cab, so I could go through them all and see which ones I liked best & I didn’t have to keep looking up what it was supposed to be modelling.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I think the reason it worked for me was that I initially used it for a specific thing - re-creating a Strat->Compressor->Proco Rat -> Delay -> AC30 recording for a production I was already working on. Once I'd worked out that things tend to be a bit toppy, and tweaked accordingly, it did the job in the mix I was evaluating it in totally convincingly. You couldn't tell which was the model and which was the real miked AC30, and it was fun to play through too.

    When I started using it more generally, I found the stock cabs aren't bad by any stretch but I do think they're a weaker point, finding some IRs was a step up.

    In terms of option paralysis, I think I wouldn't know where to begin if I didn't already have experience/ preferences to guide me like knowing what kind of cabs and mics I like. Even when I'm trying something new (I found I love the SLO model!) I at least had reference points.

    I think the OD pedals etc are really good - when I use modelled pedals I know into modelled amps I know, the result is what I expect. For good and bad - some pedals don't work with certain amps and guitars, just like in the real world. The OCD is woofy and fizzy simultaneously, just like a real OCD (a pedal that I tried to like twice, but never understood the popularity!). The Rat is boxy and has loads of upper mids to the point of harshness - just like a real one, and it's one of the things I like about them. If you pick an already middy and saturated amp and try to boost it with a TS9, it won't do much, just like in the real world... so, I'm convinced.

    To be sure, some models are better than others. You find your preferences. And if you're starting from scratch, that's going to be quite a task. I remember I once borrowed some amps around late 2014 to record an album, had 5 options miked up in the room and absolutely messed it up because I was all over the place, and the same can happen with the virtual equivalent if you're not careful. I like the delays some more than others. Vintage digital and Adriatic Delay are my go-tos. And I don't really care about modulation/ reverb that much, so my opinion on those is utterly irrelevant  =)

    Anyways... that's my 2 pence. If it makes your life better keep it, if it's not, move it on.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • NPPNPP Frets: 236
    edited February 2019
    TTBZ said:
    But, ultimately for me, it became daft trying to learn the ‘new’ language. I had to study Jason Sadites YT vids to know how and where to place my double EQ, crossover, two path chrome shaft thorax nodules.... and I never really got there and understood it.
    That was my problem when I tried Native, I felt like I had to do too much to get usable sounds. However just saw this Leon Todd Stomp video where he pretty much dials in the same kinda tones and snapshots I would use within the 6 blocks (about halfway through where he does the high gain Placater sound). It must be down to using a good IR which sorts most of the EQ issues out. 



    I trust his videos more than others as it seems we go for pretty similar tones and have similar riffing styles. After a thoroughly disappointing session playing my real amp yesterday I'm willing to give this thing a shot anyway
    thanks, having watched this I do think I really could live with this for the two things I need - a device to replace all my pedals in front of my tweed champ clone when I can play at reasonable volume, and a headphone practice tool when I can't. The new price still feels a bit steep but I'll give it a bit more time. Not sure there'll be much of a second-hand market though as there hasn't been much of one for the Amplifire, for example, so far

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited February 2019
    That's my justification for getting one too if I don't end up loving the amp modelling, it'll still be good enough for playing quietly at home, and then I can use it just for FX/boosts at rehearsals with my real amp.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • The onboard cab models and mics are usable on the Helix but I found 3rd party IRs to be a must. Ownhammer are good, Celestion are excellent. Also make use of the high and low pass filters on the IR block. They are there for a reason. The other advantage of IRs is that it reduces the number of variables you have control over. The Helix can only host a fairly limited number of them (90 I think), but once they are in there if you can’t make it work for you having more on hand probably isn’t going to help. The cab and mic modelling options on the onboard cab sims can be a bit of a rabbit hole.

    In terms of how close the amp models sound to the particular amps they are modelling, I can only say that of the amps I have used in the real world they do a good job of capturing the vibe of those. I would be inclined to say that you should keep an open mind and open ears in terms of picking amp models to achieve the sound you are after. Don’t approach it in terms of recreating your own favourite real world amp exactly, rather embrace the things it can do that you can’t easily do or not at all do in the real world. A favourite trick of mine is to set up a parallel path with two amp models, one set cleaner, the other dirtier and then recombine them at the end into a single IR. This would be impossible to do in the real world and even with a multi amp/cab/mic set up there would inevitably be some compromise with the phasing. 

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • jeztone2jeztone2 Frets: 2160
    Well. I’ve put it up for sale. Now I’m watching a demo of a Mesa Triple Crown. Ha! 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    edited February 2019
    For what it's worth, I tried going back to amps and pedals, and failed miserably.

    Truth is, I get better tones with the Helix than I have with amps and pedals, because I don't have to compromise any one tone for the others that I use in a show. That means that while there might be a couple of percent (with the attendant assumption that tone is measurable...) missing in some areas, the idea is that the overall average is closer to the tone in my head.

    I also use it somewhat differently to a lot of folk; I let go of the whole FRFR thing for live work, because it's just too frustrating and - when you're using house PAs of variable quality, I'm convinced that you need to trust the sound guy to use mics and positioning that work with the PA they're familiar with. One-size-fits-all doesn't work, and you don't get a chance to work with the sound engineer to tweak the EQ to get it perfect when you have 10 minute changeovers and line checks rather than soundchecks.

    So I run the Helix LT into a power amp (SD Powerstage 170) without cab sims or impulses, and straight into a guitar cab. For me, it's essentially an identical experience to all the valve rigs I've used, except it's less hassle to deal with on stage.

    To get the same one-touch experience with pedals and an amp, I'd have to literally spend thousands, starting which a Gigrig G2 - which would cost basically the same as I paid for my LT, before I've even bought a single pedal. And it would be obscenely heavy.

    Nope. Not going back.
    <space for hire>
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 4reaction image Wisdom
  • jeztone2jeztone2 Frets: 2160
    For what it's worth, I tried going back to amps and pedals, and failed miserably.

    Truth is, I get better tones with the Helix than I have with amps and pedals, because I don't have to compromise any one tone for the others that I use in a show. That means that while there might be a couple of percent (with the attendant assumption that tone is measurable...) missing in some areas, the idea is that the overall average is closer to the tone in my head.

    I also use it somewhat differently to a lot of folk; I let go of the whole FRFR thing for live work, because it's just too frustrating and - when you're using house PAs of variable quality, I'm convinced that you need to trust the sound guy to use mics and positioning that work with the PA they're familiar with. One-size-fits-all doesn't work, and you don't get a chance to work with the sound engineer to tweak the EQ to get it perfect when you have 10 minute changeovers and line checks rather than soundchecks.

    So I run the Helix LT into a power amp (SD Powerstage 170) without cab sims or impulses, and straight into a guitar cab. For me, it's essentially an identical experience to all the valve rigs I've used, except it's less hassle to deal with on stage.

    To get the same one-touch experience with pedals and an amp, I'd have to literally spend thousands, starting which a Gigrig G2 - which would cost basically the same as I paid for my LT, before I've even bought a single pedal. And it would be obscenely heavy.

    Nope. Not going back.
    Maybe that’s the way forward for me? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • sgosdensgosden Frets: 1993

    For just playing at home a helix amp model > matrix power amp > real cab is brilliant.

    I'll then use the sadites method for creating a DI signal path if I'm going the gig or record the tone.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • That setup does give you the option of easily going direct into the PA, as well as having the real cab on stage (if you choose to do so)...best of both worlds!

    How do you find the Powerstage? I have been using the power section of my valve amp...the issue with that is I am tempted to set it up in 4CM which means I end up endlessly A/B-ing between valve and digital. I do have a Magnum44 but it's not quite as warm as the valve amp. Better than the Harley Benton GPA-400 I had previously.

    I am using a GSP1101, so I'm tempted to get a power amp in a rack form factor and stick them both in a small 2U rack case...then maybe retire the valve amp.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • That setup does give you the option of easily going direct into the PA, as well as having the real cab on stage (if you choose to do so)...best of both worlds!

    How do you find the Powerstage? I have been using the power section of my valve amp...the issue with that is I am tempted to set it up in 4CM which means I end up endlessly A/B-ing between valve and digital. I do have a Magnum44 but it's not quite as warm as the valve amp. Better than the Harley Benton GPA-400 I had previously.

    I am using a GSP1101, so I'm tempted to get a power amp in a rack form factor and stick them both in a small 2U rack case...then maybe retire the valve amp.
    The Powerstage is...astonishing, frankly. I had two concerns about it:

    1 - Volume and power. Like many, I have an 8 ohm cab, and this amp only puts out about 90W into 8 ohms. I needn't have worried...even against our loud drummer, I chickened out with the volume control long before it ran out of headroom.

    2 - The EQ. I wanted something flat. However, the active EQ is an amazing thing to use. Imagine, for a second, that you could turn the bass up on your amp such that you only get more bass, not more mud. Same goes for the mid and treble controls.

    I can carry everything from the car in one go, with a spare hand; the amp fits in the Novation 25 rucksack with the Helix.

    It's actually the perfect solution for me.
    <space for hire>
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • dindudedindude Frets: 8534
    Powerstage 170 and Helix Stomp would make an incredibly small and powerful rig. Digital Modelling and I don't get on, but I still want this set up for the cute factor.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    edited February 2019

    I've had 2 Helix' and sold both, they are great units but I just prefer amp & pedals, there's no piddling about with hi cut, low cut, cab type, IRs, mic placement, mic type etc. Just guitar, Mesa Boogie Mark V 35 and a bit of Strymon Flint to taste.

    I do have an Atomic Amplifire 3 for silent practice and hooked up to audio interface and nearfield monitors for direct recording if required, as it has a small desk friendly footprint but prefer the simplicity of a valve amp.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I've had 2 Helix' and sold both, they are great units but I just prefer amp & pedals, there's no piddling about with hi cut, low cut, cab type, IRs, mic placement, mic type etc. Just guitar, Mesa Boogie Mark V 35 and a bit of Strymon Flint to taste.

    I do have an Atomic Amplifire 3 for silent practice and hooked up to audio interface and nearfield monitors for direct recording if required, as it has a small desk friendly footprint but prefer the simplicity of a valve amp.

    I'm much the same - I think I have lasted longer with the GSP1101 precisely because there are fewer options. If you want to use the cabs, you just choose one...you can't change the mic or mic placement or any of that stuff. The order of fx blocks is pretty much fixed. You can only have one amp and one chain. But it plays really well with real amps and the modelled amps sound really good without having to do anything much to them. You can make them better by tweaking eq and adding compression and stuff...but they are pretty useable as they are. I could never understand why the HD500X had a load of amp models that just sounded complete shite unless you added 4 parametric eq blocks to filer out all the awfulness.

    The Helix felt a little like that for me...the amps weren't awful by themselves - far from it, but to get the most out of it does seem to require a lot of knowledge and effort. Like someone mentioned above, if you download patches and look at how they are made up, they sometimes look incredibly complicated, with multiple amps, parallel pathways etc. It's just too much for me.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom

  • I have a helix but have realised it's amp and pedals all the way for me, although my LT is a great and invaluable tool.
    I think if I was in a cover band that needed to cover a lot of ground, which did gigs through a decent sized PA it might work. 
    But I’m in an acoustic cover band and soon a Ska cover band and really I just want my own sound.  We interpret the originals but don’t necessarily want to copy them so
    to that end just an amp and a few pedals works better.  There’s absolutely no scenario I’d need a Kings of Leon, U2 or Oasis ‘tone’.
    In fact I can safely say that I would never entertain the idea of being in your classic cover band like that, I just don’t want to be involved with anything that needs me to get a facsimile of
    somebody else’s sound.  But I can see the Helix might be a better route than pedals and amps if I did.



    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I get that but I don't think most Helix users are copying famous tones in quite that way either. They probably have the usual array of clean, crunch, lead, ultra but modelling gives them much more flexibility in how they use different flavours of that. I tend to pretty much use a middle of the road rock tone 95% of the time...but it's nice to have all the fx there to play with.

    ...I suppose that's why I felt Helix was too much unit for me but I'm happy with a much cheaper, much simpler version of modelling.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.