Scales

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  • carloscarlos Frets: 3426
    Clarky said:

    there are no Greek names..
    practicing the 7 different fingerings for G major is still G major, just starting from a different note..
    to my students I simply refer to them a 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc position
    context wise, the tonic is always G
    so this exercise has nothing to do with modes or anything like that..
    Fair enough. Learning 3 nps along the 7 positions is pretty useful down the line at seeing the intervals on the fretboard. Superimpose position 2 and position 6 (Major being 1) and you can clearly see where all the m6 and 6's are. But I don't teach anybody so will concede my position.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    carlos said:
    Clarky said:

    there are no Greek names..
    practicing the 7 different fingerings for G major is still G major, just starting from a different note..
    to my students I simply refer to them a 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc position
    context wise, the tonic is always G
    so this exercise has nothing to do with modes or anything like that..
    Fair enough. Learning 3 nps along the 7 positions is pretty useful down the line at seeing the intervals on the fretboard. Superimpose position 2 and position 6 (Major being 1) and you can clearly see where all the m6 and 6's are. But I don't teach anybody so will concede my position.
    to be honest.. it's easier not to superimpose anything and teach it as 'these are the 7 fingerings of G"
    that keeps everything really simple
    I call it: G-Everywhere, which pretty much describes what it's trying to achieve..

    when it comes to relative minor and modes, I simply show how the template of those 7 patterns are displaced..
    so... E Dorian..
    Dorian is mode 2.. so what is E the maj 2nd of?
    E is the maj 2nd of D
    move G-Everywhere and make it D-Everywhere..
    the entire fingerboard is now yours to use and abuse.. enjoy..
    for the basics and to get folks new to modes playing, understanding, hearing and enjoying, this method works quite well

    ok so this only works well if key / mode are static
    in music that switches key / mode often and / or quickly, or when you want to get into things like melodic substitution I have other shortcuts and tricks to teach.. but these are for the more advanced guys that already have a solid grasp of the fundamentals..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • GulliverGulliver Frets: 848
    My 2 cents - I learned the 5 major and minor pentatonic shapes, then learned where to add the extra notes for modes in each shape.  That allows me to sit in the comfortable pentatonics of my blues background - but then add extra modal flavours when required.
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited February 2019
    Gulliver said:
    My 2 cents - I learned the 5 major and minor pentatonic shapes, then learned where to add the extra notes for modes in each shape.  That allows me to sit in the comfortable pentatonics of my blues background - but then add extra modal flavours when required.
    That's my basic approach. Plus knowing the intervals of the shapes. Then, knowing the 5 intervals of the major or minor pentatonic as a launching point, it it's easy to determine where the extra intervals are. Or how to adjust the pentatonics to create other scales that don't quite fit the patterns.
    It's not a competition.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Keiko said:
    Guitar teachers always seem to make learning scales way too complicated. There are 7 notes in the major scale, and that's it.

    Maybe it's because I learned keyboard before I took up the guitar, but I never understood the need to learn all these complicated patterns and positions on the fretboard. So long as you learn where all the notes are on the fretboard (that's the hard part granted, but once it's done, it's done), the scales will come very easy to you - you only need to know the 7 notes of the scale. Then when someone asks you to play the major scale you can play it anywhere on the fretboard, without being trapped in positions and patterns you have learnt.

    Im not a guitar teacher so dont take my word for it, but thats how I learn't my scales, and it works for me.   
    I totally agree, I did it the exact same way and there is no point doing it any other way. I would also say don't bother learning the pentatonic scale ... just learn the major and minor scales  ... the pentatonic scales in there anyway.




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  • Danny1969 said:
    Keiko said:
    Guitar teachers always seem to make learning scales way too complicated. There are 7 notes in the major scale, and that's it.

    Maybe it's because I learned keyboard before I took up the guitar, but I never understood the need to learn all these complicated patterns and positions on the fretboard. So long as you learn where all the notes are on the fretboard (that's the hard part granted, but once it's done, it's done), the scales will come very easy to you - you only need to know the 7 notes of the scale. Then when someone asks you to play the major scale you can play it anywhere on the fretboard, without being trapped in positions and patterns you have learnt.

    Im not a guitar teacher so dont take my word for it, but thats how I learn't my scales, and it works for me.   
    I totally agree, I did it the exact same way and there is no point doing it any other way. I would also say don't bother learning the pentatonic scale ... just learn the major and minor scales  ... the pentatonic scales in there anyway.



    Different strokes for different folks. It's obviously important to have a common language/theory (i.e. the naming of scales, chords etc) for clear communication, but the method by which individuals apply that theory has to suit the way their brain works.

      Some people have a good memory or an 'artistic feel' for things, which I'm useless at. My brain has to work with patterns and associations. I haven't got perfect pitch and I don't think (or hear) in terms of absolute notes, but in terms of patterns and intervals. I could tell you what note I'm playing (if I stopped and thought about it) but I'm primarily aware of intervals and the sound of patterns.

    My ear developed by learning solos by classic blues/rock players such as Clapton, Hendrix and Kossoff and I noticed recurring 5 notes patterns that I only discovered later were called major and minor pentatonics. Then I learned to add extra flavours to the sounds I already knew. But learning solos and 'lines' (musical phrases) came first and the scales were then useful in categorising those sounds.

    I dabble on keyboards but have real problems developing a similar interval visualisation system. I try to see the keyboard notes as a line ignoring whether they're black or white notes, but (for example) it's much harder for me to instantly know where the intervals are (especially the ones on the middle of the scale).
    It's not a competition.
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  • MelodicLydianMelodicLydian Frets: 13
    edited February 2019
    Personally although I've learnt some things via shapes and patterns in the past I found I much prefer to see the whole neck rather than boxes. I do now know the names of all the notes on the fretboard in standard tuning without much mental effort but, my real aim to know at an instant all the intervals by ear and under the fingers in the most common keys (and some popular modes) without having to think about it.

    This hopefully will make finding the tension notes, leading notes and chord tones easy when improvising and chords voicing easy to do on the fly rather than learning shapes alone.
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