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I also think that as much as many younger guitarists grew up with no real connection to what people of my age call classic guitars as they grow older the interest seems to start to rise. A friend of mines son would never talk to me about classic guitars he just used his squire JM for years. Suddenly a year a so ago he started obsessing over 50's and 60's era guitars sucking up everything he could on the subject. I just think as we mature our interest rises in older things.
@jaymenon
Not sure what the Collings and Throbak hate is about J Gundry can at times come across as arrogant. But he has spent a huge amount of time researching PAF pickups down to wire metal analysis and magnet composition over many years. A few years back he got hold of one of the old Gibson winders and again did a load of work on coil winding shapes of original PAF's.
Is what he makes better or more authentic I don't know you either like the sound or you don't of any of these vintage styles of PAF clones. That said his pickups run around 5-600 bucks a set so there is an obvious upcharge over say, Lollar.
For those that consider vintage guitars an 'investment' then there is a point. They are speculating that the value of the asset will rise over time and that the risk is commensurate with the potential reward. For as long as there are buyers and sellers then a market will exist. Pure investors, more often than not, don't care about the asset per se; they just care about creating value. These investors will protect their investment and that may mean locking it away in a vault never to be seen/played or whatever.
The point is that this is a vehicle to generate a return on investment; not a beautiful '61 Strat or '59 LP. They are serving themselves and not us..
In fairness I should point out that most people who consider vintage guitars as an investment are actually 'into' guitars in some way so it's not quite so cut and dried but you catch my drift.
Si
I’m convinced it is the wood, but that’s maybe just because I would characterise the difference to the modern counterparts as ‘woody’. In my mad head it’s like the way in which a Chilli is better after you have cooked it then left it for a day or so.
The ‘54 Gold Top Les Paul I played, said to have been worth I’m the ballpark of 20k was worth that money, not as an investment but on how much better an instrument it was than my 2014 (rrp) £2,800 Les Paul Standard.
No confirmation bias or anything as I was hoping it would all be bullshit.
Likewise the 64 Strat sounded and felt ace compared to my 2006 Classic Player 60s Strat.
Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
Doesn't stop me wanting the Goldtop badly or course.
Si
It weighs less than 6lbs and is the loudest guitar acoustically compared to my others which are all good high level instruments (2 les pauls, a strat and a Suhr)
it it might be the wood, it might be something to do with 55 years of ageing.
i’ve only found one modern guitar as resonant and that was a custom shop strat that I still kick myself for not buying.
does any of it make a difference playing with a band?
Not really no!
If it doesn't we can leave them to the Antiques Roadshow crowd lol
Much of it is "in the eye of the beholder". I watched a piece some time ago about how great Stradivarius were. They played a real one and a modern copy and eulogised over the superior tones of the Strad. But I much preferred the modern one - the Strad seemed harsh and abrasive to my ears - eyes/ears of the beholder.
Again nearly all, probably all, Strads have been changed - Necks removed, for starters, to change scale length from the old baroque scale length to a modern virtuoso/orchestral scale length
Also a massive variation regarding the make up/materials/construction of strings that violin players choose - This has a massive impact on tonal variations available
It’s nothing of the sort. The old instruments I played all sounded different to modern equivalents. Whether you hear or like that difference is up to you. I’d be ecstatic if my modern Les Paul had had he same quality I found in the older one. Likewise the Strat. I’ve no hand in the game.
Frankly, bringing science into it is pointless when discussing something so completely subjective as tone. On paper a Mesa MKV is ‘scientifically’ a far superior amp to a 57 Deluxe. So is a Boss Katana. But I know which I would rather play.
Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
Science can't say which of two different sounds an individual person would prefer but it can say if the person can tell that there is a difference or, say, could pick a vintage instrument out of 5 samples reliably.
I don't like to think I'm vintage and your les Paul is nearly as old as me!
Maybe there's some joke about trading a vintage wife for a 90s CIJ...
I can make an 8K Red Cinema camera look like Super 8mm film but I couldn't do it the other way around.
Been uploading old tracks I recorded ages ago and hopefully some new noodles here.
But this statement ( I appreciate the honesty! LOL) is why "players" don't often like "collectors". Removing things from a market and storing them away in bulk is in principle (speaking in pure black and white here, the real world is not so clear cut) selfish and directly opposite to the ethos of the creatives they envy and emulate.
I suggest we start a rumour that vintage guitars, like cars, need playing to keep their tone in tip-top condition.
Bemoan loudly how dreadful old, unplayed guitars sound at their first outing from the vault. Then talk up the delight when finally the "real" sound comes shining through. It was worth thrice the hefty price tag! But only after a couple of months of n hours a day being played.
Repeat this frequently enough for collectors to become convinced the instrument will only reach peak price with a hefty dose of recent usage.
And thus it makes financial sense for them to start paying for a player to put some recent mileage on the clock.
We want the finest guitars available to humanity!
They got a whole bunch of professional violinists to play a whole bunch of professional level violins - some modern, some "vintage classic" ones like strads.
The violinists were able to play the instruments and were asked their preferences in a series of blind tests. A majority of them preferred a modern violin to any old one. They also failed to reliably identify old vs new.
The full paper is available online but there's a fairly decent Wikipedia summary:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_preferences_among_new_and_old_violins