Camcorders?

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  • robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 1948
    edited June 2019
    boogieman said:
    Keiko said:
    gopro?
    This. A friend does semi-pro film making and uses Go Pros as well as his DSLR. Gets great results. 
    I have a Go Pro 5 and I have to say that in low light (standard pub ) conditions, it’s completely outgunned by my Samsung S8 phone when shooting 1080 / 30. The recorded audio is better on the phone too when shooting live music.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    Thanks for the input guys, I took it outside for a while, sun was just setting but it was good and bright, a little overcast, camera was grainy still, and it makes a clicking noise that transfers into the videos audio, I will try it tomorrow during the day and see if it is any better but to be honest so far its not looking good for this camera. Also,  it has a night time mode, thats going to be interesting!
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 

    This has manual focus, its screen touch based, so responding to a moving object may be tricky!
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359



    So night time mode isnt too bad, a bit grainy and clicking in audio, is this why its also grainy in well lit conditions? Trying to achieve the best of both worlds but not quite getting either of them?
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • robgilmo said:
    robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 

    This has manual focus, its screen touch based, so responding to a moving object may be tricky!

    That's autofocus - you're just choosing a point. Manual focus is where you manually push or pull focus. Touch to focus is choosing a point, which the camera's autofocus will then attempt to latch onto. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    If it's for a static setup (talking to camera type setup) then spend the money on lighting - will make the world if difference 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • you are way overthinking the camera element part of what you are trying to achieve.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    you are way overthinking the camera element part of what you are trying to achieve.
    I totally understand that lighting and knowing what I am doing is important but I want to make sure I have a decent camera to begin with, 
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • robgilmo said:
    you are way overthinking the camera element part of what you are trying to achieve.
    I totally understand that lighting and knowing what I am doing is important but I want to make sure I have a decent camera to begin with, 
    If you want interchangeable lenses then mirrorless is where you need to be... the 2 Canons you link are not the way to go, especially the 4000d with non STM lenses and a 75-300 will be good for nowt.


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  • Decent camera if you want it - but don't expect quality tracking autofocus for less than a couple of grand for tla body and lens. This is a compact, but with a bigger sensor, decent lens etc. Shoots 1080p.

    https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-compact-system-cameras/used-panasonic-compact-system-cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx100/sku-831696/

    However... Lighting really is everything. A small led panel in a soft box or diffused through a bed sheet will really elevate image quality. Just one stop of light extra effectively doubles your sensor size in terms of noise. 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    Thanks guys. We have decided to let her use the Cannon camcorder for her videos, and when she grows out of it maybe think then about something better. We can sort out some lighting and get it right for her.
     This means we can think about replacing our old Fujifilm bridge camera. A few things bothered me with the bridge camera, it took Ok photos but was quite restrictive with exactly what I could do with it. Night time photos (no flash) are not great, no bulb mode, auto focus could sometimes be hit and miss, I always wanted to photograph the night sky which it couldn't do, the zoom couldn't get me close to the moon without getting noise in the photo and Ive always wanted to be able to photograph lightning. Im not asking much , am I?

    So I am going to need a multi lens bundle I think (I know nothing about lenses) to get me going and I can only push the boat out to 4-5 hundred quid, and, I can only shop in PCWorld as they have already given me credit to buy one.
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    edited June 2019
    Still looking, reading up on lenses, lots to learn.

    So, I have concluded that a camera body such as this, https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/digital-cameras/dslr-and-compact-system-cameras/canon-eos-2000d-dslr-camera-body-only-10177611-pdt.html ; and a lens like this https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/photography-accessories/lenses/canon-ef-50-mm-f-1-8-stm-standard-prime-lens-10132951-pdt.html ; would be a good starting point to get me going? I can always buy a decent zoom lens when funds allow.
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • relic245relic245 Frets: 945
    I have a Facebook page where I do talk to camera videos.

    Spent about £300 on a second hand cannon 700d

    Abiur £50 on lighting from amazon

    Needs an external mic for a good sound. I use a zoom z1 that I already had. Also use a lavelier mic that I got from amazon for £8 both do really well.

    Had a friend spend an hour with me teaching me about lighting. 

    I get some great comments on how professional my videos are. 

    Its not too pricey or difficult to get a good result for a small outlay 
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  • robgilmo said:
    Still looking, reading up on lenses, lots to learn.

    So, I have concluded that a camera body such as this, https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/digital-cameras/dslr-and-compact-system-cameras/canon-eos-2000d-dslr-camera-body-only-10177611-pdt.html ; and a lens like this https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/photography-accessories/lenses/canon-ef-50-mm-f-1-8-stm-standard-prime-lens-10132951-pdt.html ; would be a good starting point to get me going? I can always buy a decent zoom lens when funds allow.

    Sort of, but it's quite telephoto on a crop sensor for night sky long exposures. 

    I'd be looking at mirrorless because there are some wonderful, affordable, fast wide lenses. For example, on a Sony a6000 or a fuji xe-2 you can get a 12mm samyang f/2.0 - this is an ultra wide that's fast. Manual focus only, but at 12mm who cares? 

    This could then be supplemented with the kit lens - the fuji one is decent, the Sony one less so. Or, you could go for a small prime - fuji has some fabulous primes like the 23mm f/2 and 35mm f/2. Might get out of budget. 

    Zooms are great, but they're expensive. If they're not expensive, they're usually a bit pants. 
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  • For dslr, lenses are quite... Poor for crop sensor. You could look at a nikon 16-80mm is good, but you'll spend more than your budget on a used copy. 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 3359
    I had to google crop sensors, full frame sensor cameras are way out of what I would pay for a camera, I need also to be able to point and shoot, holiday snaps etc and a flash is a must, I know I can buy a separate flash but it will eat into my budget..
    A Deuce , a Tele and a cup of tea.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    You’ll be amazed how much you don’t need flash when you learn a smidge about how photography works. And especially on-board flash. i definitely wouldn’t base any buying decisions on whether it has onboard flash
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • You’ll be amazed how much you don’t need flash when you learn a smidge about how photography works. And especially on-board flash. i definitely wouldn’t base any buying decisions on whether it has onboard flash

    Wisdom. 

    On board has a place - but it's, ironically, for good light and fill, not for low light! So best on leaf shutter compacts and old ccd sensor cameras (like the d70 with it's instant electronic sensor). 

    If you need stills, what quality do you need? The lx100 linked above still might be your best bet. Fast lens, decent for low-ish light... But it won't do those huge night sky shots. They need a fats ultra wide... 
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