Distance Swimming for Triathlons

joneve · August 2018

Flametop said:

I was in Copenhagen last Sunday for business while this year’s race was on. Looks like a great course!

I’m not sure I’m the best person to ask for tips, my racing was basically a catalogue of fuck ups, but here you go:

Find out what gels are available during the race and start work on your nutrition strategy straight away. Find out what you can and can’t eat and drink when you’re working hard. Then stick to it when you race. I had a gels and water only strategy which meant I was bloody starving 10 miles in to the run, ate a banana, then suffered from stomach cramps for the next 30 mins.

Get your family on board early. I missed loads of family dinners, bed time stories etc. Which = negative brownie points. I sent a bunch of flowers each to my wife and two girls to arrive on the morning of the race which seemed to pretty much zero out the brownie points.

If you have a favourite flavour of gel, make sure you carry a few spares in case the feed stations run out.

Do loads of bike/run brick sessions. My staple Saturday was a 4 hour ride, 2 hour run. Then long run on Sunday while fatigued.

Test all your kit the week before the race. My goggles developed a leak during the swim due to a knackered strap I later discovered. Sore eyes for most of the race.

Use suncream judiciously. It stings like hell when it sweats down into your eyes. Especially when they’re already full of lake water and duck shit.

Listen to your body, it’s as hard getting to the start line as the finish line.

Make sure your bottles are snug in the cages. It’s very depressing to reach down for a drink and find it missing with 25 miles to the next feed station.

Tape a couple of paracetamol to the bars on the bike. You’ll be glad you did at about 80 miles.

Develop a mental coping strategy: mine was just to stay in the moment, and accept that the foreseeable future was eg swimming.

Take a Sherpa. Having someone else to lug your kit back to the tent/hotel is very welcome.

Don’t neck a pint of Guinness 5 minutes after finishing. Black vomit is quite unnerving.

Oh, and learn to swim properly.

Plenty more useless advice where that came from. Feel free to PM, or better still start a thread.

This is fantastic! Thank you.

My wife is, fortunately, very supportive, but we've butted heads the last few days (in the lead up to deciding to register), as she thinks that I'm under estimating how much it's going to impact her and her having to be a single parent to our toddler whilst I'm off training...I've bought what's considered to be the training bible by Don Fink, which offers training plans that are time efficient and focus on heart rate based training - most of the sessions are an hour or so, with long run & ride at the weekends...30 week program, so a good 8 months...the sessions in the week I should be able to fit around work/family life, it's the weekends that will be most affected, but early starts will be my friend.

the idea of flowers on race day is superb and I'll 100% be doing that (or similar)...I've got my wife and son, and some of her family and a few close friends coming out to offer support so that will be a good boost hopefully, and plenty of hands to help lug my kit back to the accommodation

Paracetamol on the bike is inspired as are finding out what gels they use...my friend ran the race last weekend, so I'll check with him. I'll always take my own, but I'd rather get my body used to whatever they're offering on race day, just in case I have any issues. My nutrition seemed ok during my half iron earlier this month, so I'll adopt a similar thing I think, but just more volume (couple of trek bars to eat periodically and gels in between)

Flametop · August 2018

thecolourbox said:

When I did my crappy little tri, I was explaining my planned attire to the other chap in the office who was doing it. I said I was going to wear my basic running vest thing and he looked at me like I'd just said I was going to wear a conical bra and heels. "But that's not a cycling shirt!" He managed to splutter out. I said "Well in that case I'd better withdraw from the race lest this controversial fact be noticed by the powers that be, and I get hung head first from the side of a rescue canoe." He eventually said.... "But what about pockets for your gels?!?!?!". I actually had no idea what he was talking about, still don't to be honest. The above post reminded me of it. What are they, like energy burst things?

I smashed a raw blackcurrant jelly about ten minutes before I swam, had a banana in transition one, then water the rest of the way and managed to beat Mr Cycle-Shirt Gelman

So, going back to the OP, I suspect you're likely to be aiming at a sprint distance - technique and practice is way better than relying on gadgets and sachets of nandrolone or whatever is in the gels

Gels are small sachets of flavoured wall paper paste textured carbohydrate mix, designed for easy digestion (allegedly) that are for topping up energy levels on the move. It was a year after my IM before I could look at a High5 gel again without feeling sick.

For a sprint tri, I used to use a caffeine one just after getting on the bike. Not sure it made much difference, but it was a routine.

joneve · August 2018

Flametop said:

thecolourbox said:

When I did my crappy little tri, I was explaining my planned attire to the other chap in the office who was doing it. I said I was going to wear my basic running vest thing and he looked at me like I'd just said I was going to wear a conical bra and heels. "But that's not a cycling shirt!" He managed to splutter out. I said "Well in that case I'd better withdraw from the race lest this controversial fact be noticed by the powers that be, and I get hung head first from the side of a rescue canoe." He eventually said.... "But what about pockets for your gels?!?!?!". I actually had no idea what he was talking about, still don't to be honest. The above post reminded me of it. What are they, like energy burst things?

I smashed a raw blackcurrant jelly about ten minutes before I swam, had a banana in transition one, then water the rest of the way and managed to beat Mr Cycle-Shirt Gelman

So, going back to the OP, I suspect you're likely to be aiming at a sprint distance - technique and practice is way better than relying on gadgets and sachets of nandrolone or whatever is in the gels

Gels are small sachets of flavoured wall paper paste textured carbohydrate mix, designed for easy digestion (allegedly) that are for topping up energy levels on the move. It was a year after my IM before I could look at a High5 gel again without feeling sick.
For a sprint tri, I used to use a caffeine one just after getting on the bike. Not sure it made much difference, but it was a routine.

haha! they're sooo bad. I use SIS gels predominantly, but ended up using the High 5 ones they were handing out on the run during the Cotswold Classic this year...they are just so sweet.

Flametop · August 2018

Crisps or Pringles are good for long distance stuff as well. I crave something savoury after a few hours racing and they have the added benefit of salt. Eating them on the move was something I never really cracked for racing but they're great for a long bike ride. I do know of someone who built himself a Pringle dispenser for the bars on his bike

joneve · August 2018

Flametop said:

Crisps or Pringles are good for long distance stuff as well. I crave something savoury after a few hours racing and they have the added benefit of salt. Eating them on the move was something I never really cracked for racing but they're great for a long bike ride. I do know of someone who built himself a Pringle dispenser for the bars on his bike

That sounds incredible!

The guys that run the Cotswold Classic put EVERYTHING out on their main feed station on the run course..this year we had;

Cupped Water

Cupped Flat Coke
Cupped High5
Half bananas
Jelly babies
Salt and vinegar Pringles
Salt stick crisps
Salted Peanuts
Jamaican Ginger cake
Chocolate cake
Jaffa Cakes
Fig Rolls
Nice biscuits

It was great

Flametop · August 2018

That's not a race! I've been to worse buffets than that :O

joneve · August 2018

Flametop said:

That's not a race! I've been to worse buffets than that :O

It's easily one of the best run endurance events in the UK. I've marshalled it a few times, so I might be slightly biased, but I always have a great time, and I've never heard anyone speak badly about the race. If I can find the money, I'll be adding it to my training schedule next year.

Johnnyseven · August 2018

Flametop said:

For a sprint tri, I used to use a caffeine one just after getting on the bike. Not sure it made much difference, but it was a routine.

I've used these when doing Ride London, they're like rocket fuel!

My favourite fuel though is the little 1 inch flapjack squares you get in supermarkets. Sugary for quick energy and oats for longer lasting energy.

roundthebend · August 2018

Went for a brief swim tonight, targeted 16 lengths (400m) and just cruised through it. I don't know what I'm doing different to a few weeks ago, but I feel like I could already do the 750m sprint triathlon distance. My target for the end of August was 50m...

I should be able to work on technique through winter and make it easier, and faster. Then I'll do open water in Spring and combine cycling and running.

roundthebend · July 2019

Necro bump.
On Sunday I did a Sprint Triathlon (750m river swim, 23km road bike, 5km run)
I haven't been training much but I felt I'd be able to get through it.
And I did. The swim was really pleasant, I just took my time and got into a rhythm. Coming out of the water feels weird so I took my time to peel the wetsuit off and get my cycling shoes and helmet on, by that time I felt steady enough to jog and jump onto the bike before blasting past a few who obviously prefer the swim leg.
I felt good all the way and finished with a rapid spin of the legs to prepare for running. Despite not being a fan of running, and it was starting to get hot in the sun, I managed to do a 5k PB (23:00).

I enjoyed it. I am actually looking forward to my next one.....maybe September. And I think I'll go for a longer distance next year.

The official photographer caught this beauty of me.

Mark1960 · July 2019

One tip I was taught was to not hold the fingers of each hand together, just let the hand stay relaxed in it's natural position. Apparently the energy required to keep the fingers together is disproportional to the aditional water displacement it acheives. So I tried it and although it feel a little odd initially, I did not notice any reduction in forward thrust. There you go

joneve · July 2019

roundthebend said:

Necro bump.
On Sunday I did a Sprint Triathlon (750m river swim, 23km road bike, 5km run)
I haven't been training much but I felt I'd be able to get through it.
And I did. The swim was really pleasant, I just took my time and got into a rhythm. Coming out of the water feels weird so I took my time to peel the wetsuit off and get my cycling shoes and helmet on, by that time I felt steady enough to jog and jump onto the bike before blasting past a few who obviously prefer the swim leg.
I felt good all the way and finished with a rapid spin of the legs to prepare for running. Despite not being a fan of running, and it was starting to get hot in the sun, I managed to do a 5k PB (23:00).

I enjoyed it. I am actually looking forward to my next one.....maybe September. And I think I'll go for a longer distance next year.

The official photographer caught this beauty of me.

Wonderful stuff! well done sir! And now begins the slippery slope of Triathlon-ing....

Allow me to tell a story....

I did my first Sprint in 2014, enjoyed it over all, but found it jolly hard work and audibly said "how on earth do they do double that in the Olympics??????"

Fast forward 3 years and I did the London Olympic Distance Triathlon with my mate. He was using it as a warm up event for Middle Distance (half ironman) event later in the year.

"FUCK THAT" says I. "you're a nutter! I'll do the Bristol Half Marathon with you and THATS IT. How the fuck do people do an IRON MAN too???? absolutely insane"

Fast forward another 12 months and I'd been persuaded to compete in and completed the Cotswold Classic Middle Distance (half ironman). I also enjoyed that, and was buzzing to get a sub-6 hour time.

Fast forward 11 months to the present day....and I did my 2nd middle distance event back in june and I'm now 5 fucking weeks away from doing a fucking IRON MAN in Copenhagen. WHAT THE SHIT AM I THINKING??????????????????

What an idiot.

I'm retiring after Copenhagen though (if I complete it - nursing a leg injury currently

)

The feeling wobbly after the swim is normal, especially in open water. Apparently increasing your kick intensity for the last 100m helps (although I've not found that it does) as do ear plugs (wouldn't know as never wear them), as it's something to do with your equilibrium (or so I'm told).

Best just to take your time and compose until you're ready to go.

I'll probably have complete sea legs after swimming 3.8km in the lagoon at Copenhagen...should be interesting

roundthebend · July 2019

@joneve ;
that's the kind of pattern that I tend to follow with these things too, but I'm under orders to not let it take up too much of my life. I think standard or Olympic distance will be enough. But....we'll see.

I think I'll continue to enjoy open water swimming in its own right, and I've been into cycling for a while so think I'll do some touring and endurance events like C2C and LEJOG.

joneve · July 2019

roundthebend said:

@joneve ;
that's the kind of pattern that I tend to follow with these things too, but I'm under orders to not let it take up too much of my life. I think standard or Olympic distance will be enough. But....we'll see.

I think I'll continue to enjoy open water swimming in its own right, and I've been into cycling for a while so think I'll do some touring and endurance events like C2C and LEJOG.

This sounds all too familiar.

My wife has been an absolute saint this year. In fairness, I've tried to keep the impact on home life to a minimum and until my injury, all of my runs were incorporated with dog walking, so that sorted that out...

Cycling was some commutes a few times a week and a longer ride at the weekends where I could fit (now it's closer to the event I'm in panic stations so every weekend I'm doing at least 4 hours in the saddle).

And swimming I'm "ok" at, so have been very sporadic, but try and get a 3km swim done at least once a week.

Truth be told, I could have done more training, but I wanted a decent life/training balance, without it impacting too much, especially with an 18 month old.

I had a bit of a mental wobble yesterday and it dawned on me that I only have 6 weeks (or less than) and I'm nowhere near ready (doesn't help that my running has been hampered after doing SO much work on it over the winter)...went into proper meltdown mode on the train to London Paddington full of commuters!

I can only do what I can do now, and see what happens on the day. whatever happens, I'll be grinding it out until they tell me I've missed the cut off.

But it's a bucket list thing for me, I want to hear the words as I cross the finish line, then I'm done with exercise forever (or at least until I get a place in the London Marathon

)

Basically, what I'm saying is, it's definitely doable working around family life, especially if you can commute on your bike and do some early morning/late night runs as that takes out over 60 % of the training.

You'd be able to do a 70.3/113 on minimal training for sure. But I'd definitely do an Olympic - there's some fantastic ones available too...but I can assure you, you'll want to challenge yourself with a 70.3 event after that

BeardyAndy · July 2019

Crawl is far more efficient than breast stroke, you just need to learn how. Biggest flaws in my technique was rushing it all, I rolled my shoulder out of the joint in the swim stage of a tri and after the race was out of the pool for a couple of weeks. On my return i had to take it easier and i was breathing better because i had more time to between strokes so my times dropped.
Also, I would try and lift my head out to breath by pushing down with my hand rather than rotating, look up "catch up" swim drills as this one really helps slow you down (in a good way!

)

roundthebend · July 2019

I've been reading Total Immersion Swimming, watching related videos and talking to fellow triathletes who ALL say they were terrible swimmers. It's been a revelation, and the surprising things I've learned which have completely rewired how I try to swim.

Front crawl really is more efficient than breast stroke - I never believed that until now
It's not the arms pulling you, but the thrusting forward from the core that gives you most propulsion
gliding through the water is more efficient than churning away
leg muscles use up oxygen quickly, better just to gently flick them to prevent them becoming an anchor
getting out of breath is often caused by not exhaling enough, rather than actually being exhausted. It's CO2 build up

I'm now confident that I could swim the distance for an Olympic triathlon, in open water with a bit of current. I wouldn't be fast, but I'd be comfortable. And I'd be able to get out and ride a bike straight after.

My next swimming step is to use the local triathlon club to coach me into improving that technique and hopefully my pace.

joneve · July 2019

roundthebend said:

I've been reading Total Immersion Swimming, watching related videos and talking to fellow triathletes who ALL say they were terrible swimmers. It's been a revelation, and the surprising things I've learned which have completely rewired how I try to swim.
Front crawl really is more efficient than breast stroke - I never believed that until now
It's not the arms pulling you, but the thrusting forward from the core that gives you most propulsion
gliding through the water is more efficient than churning away
leg muscles use up oxygen quickly, better just to gently flick them to prevent them becoming an anchor
getting out of breath is often caused by not exhaling enough, rather than actually being exhausted. It's CO2 build up

I'm now confident that I could swim the distance for an Olympic triathlon, in open water with a bit of current. I wouldn't be fast, but I'd be comfortable. And I'd be able to get out and ride a bike straight after.

My next swimming step is to use the local triathlon club to coach me into improving that technique and hopefully my pace.

This is me. I could probably go faster if I really boshed it, but I'd be so caked afterwards, a bike leg would be a struggle.

Tri club is a good shout. My mate could barely swim 400m a few years ago. He's as quick as me now. And although I'm not quick, I was basically a good 400m quicker than him on a 1500m swim.

CloudNine · July 2019

I used to swim for my county many years ago, but the science has moved on quite a bit in terms of technique. As mentioned above, very little focus on legs nowadays, apparently accounts for less than 5% of your propulsion. Some of the top swimmers hardly kick at all. Just a little stabilising flick timed with every stroke, which is very hard to master after a lifetime of just kicking randomly. Also, after each arm enters the water, the quicker you get it into a position where you are using not just your hand, but the whole underside of your forearm as well, as a paddle to pull water directly backwards, the better. i.e. Don't waste energy pushing water in a downwards direction. Not sure if that makes sense the way I have written it...

Flametop · July 2019

Good luck @joneve. let us know how you get on.

And congratulations @roundthebend.

joneve · July 2019

Flametop said:

Good luck @joneve. let us know how you get on.
And congratulations @roundthebend.

If you don't hear from me by around the 20th August, please send my wife condolence flowers!

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Distance Swimming for Triathlons

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