Finished Pics! Dreadnought Acoustic Build - Black Limba

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Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
edited September 2019 in Making & Modding
Hi

@Ttony inadvertently reminded me that I've been a bit tardy on posting one of my latest builds, that of another Dreadnought Acoustic.

It's a bit of a background job but is actually progressing quicker than I was expecting.  I won't turn it into one of my interminable sagas   But do feel free to shout if you want more info of any specific aspects of the build, especially if you are thinking of doing one yourselves - I have plenty of photos of the various stages.


I got a nice Black Limba back and sides set from Germany:



I'd got an old bass neck blank leftover from another build (changed the concept during the build and made a second neck), which I was able to build the heel up from with some offcuts and some blocks of walnut:





...and bought a nice AAAAA European spruce top set from David Dyke

 
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Comments

  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    I thinned down the limba to around 1.9mm and got the bending pipe out and the former I'd used in the two previous builds.

      

    It bent pretty well!  First time ever no splits on the sides!  This is the sides bent and the kerfing strips being installed, set proud of the side edges to allow for sanding to the 15 and 25 foot spherical radii of the back and top:




    I jointed the slimmed-down bookmatched back panels and glued those too:




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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    So now it was time to get out the home-made Go-bar rig and the 15 foot radius dish for the back.



    The maple braces are radiused on the bottoms, using the dish as a spherical sanding block and then, using a combination of dowel and fibreglass rods, the back is forced into the dish and the shape set by the braces and middle-joint reinforcing strip:






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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 27345
    Always good to see one of your build threads
    :)
    Having trouble posting images here?  This might help.
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    The top also needs slimming down close to its final 3.0mm thickness and joining.

    The braces also have to be cut to and again radiused for their respective positions, this time using the 25 foot dish as the sanding block.  I have left the profiles flat on the tops to allow maximum usable surfaces for the all important Go-bar rods to press down on:
     

    But before these can be fitted, the rosette needs designing and fitting.

    For the last build, I did an offset rosette that worked quite well so I thought I would do try something like it again.


    Trying to remember by schooldays geometry, I set two centres on some bookmatched walnut and got my Dremel out.  This is the only thing I use this attachment for, but it is SO useful:



    OK - that worked (to my slight surprise and great relief :) )



    And then used the same two centres and Dremel rig to rout the channels for the rosette to fit into, ditto some purfling channels and then, finally, used the Dremel precision router base to a chamber for a MoP swift, cut out with a jewellers saw.


    Still a bit of sanding to do to tidy up the ragged edges, but this is broadly how it's looking





     
     
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    And bringing it up to date - glue drying as I type - the gluing of the braces can start.

    Using the 25 foot radius dish, the all important X braces are fitted first and will be allowed to fully cure before I continue with the other braces:



    Progress will slow down to a crawl now, but I'll update as and when there's anything of note to share. :)

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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    TTony said:
    Always good to see one of your build threads
    :)
    You see - now look what you've started!  ;)

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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    Ah, some proper guitar building! ;)

    That looks stunning! I’ve promised myself I’ll tackle an acoustic build one day, just the time and the confidence. Can’t wait to see this completed :)
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    That's really nice, haven't seen much limba on acoustics, I'd love to get one made later this year if i get time and try and remember what I'm supposed to be doing

    Let us know what the tones like compared to the usual woods used
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    Ah, some proper guitar building! ;)

    That looks stunning! I’ve promised myself I’ll tackle an acoustic build one day, just the time and the confidence. Can’t wait to see this completed :)
    Thanks! :)  

    It's an enormous hike up the learning curve but VERY satisfying.  Go for it and shout if you want any tips from someone who almost certainly has done it wrong many times and had to do it again ;)
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  • IvisonGuitarsIvisonGuitars Frets: 6838
    tFB Trader
    Thanks @Andyjr1515, you may live to regret that offer! ;)
    http://www.ivisonguitars.com
    (formerly miserneil)
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    That's really nice, haven't seen much limba on acoustics, I'd love to get one made later this year if i get time and try and remember what I'm supposed to be doing

    Let us know what the tones like compared to the usual woods used

    Thanks, @Danielsguitars ;

    It will be interesting.  Theoretically, the back and sides make little difference to the tone, but it will be interesting just the same.  

    Now tap tuning...well that really DOES make a difference.  And one of the reasons for building this one is to see if the last one was fluke.  There's a full build thread somewhere on the previous one below:


    Reason this build has started in the first place is that the one above has caused a bit of a flurry of interest.  I always thought it sounded pretty good (let's face it, I'd have been chuffed if it had sounded like rubber bands over a baked bean can) but then I fitted 2/3rds of a set of 11's on the bass strings and the top 2 with my normal wimpy 10s.  And to my ears it sounded fabulous.

    So I compared it directly with a friend's Martin D-18.  This one was better: I thought it...but more, importantly, the Martin's owner grudgingly voiced it.  It was then borrowed by a pro-player I know...who hasn't stopped going on about how good it sounds!  And he hasn't given it back to me yet ;)  And he does the slick demo videos for a very well respected acoustic guitar company!

    BUT - while I know the theory of tap tuning, I don't fully understand exactly where and how much to shave from which braces.  So it could be complete fluke and never to be repeated.  Which is why I'm building the new one.


    I'll let you know if it's a triumph or - probably more likely -  a flop :)
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    Lovely work
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    That's really nice, haven't seen much limba on acoustics, I'd love to get one made later this year if i get time and try and remember what I'm supposed to be doing

    Let us know what the tones like compared to the usual woods used

    Thanks, @Danielsguitars ;

    It will be interesting.  Theoretically, the back and sides make little difference to the tone, but it will be interesting just the same.  

    Now tap tuning...well that really DOES make a difference.  And one of the reasons for building this one is to see if the last one was fluke.  There's a full build thread somewhere on the previous one below:


    Reason this build has started in the first place is that the one above has caused a bit of a flurry of interest.  I always thought it sounded pretty good (let's face it, I'd have been chuffed if it had sounded like rubber bands over a baked bean can) but then I fitted 2/3rds of a set of 11's on the bass strings and the top 2 with my normal wimpy 10s.  And to my ears it sounded fabulous.

    So I compared it directly with a friend's Martin D-18.  This one was better: I thought it...but more, importantly, the Martin's owner grudgingly voiced it.  It was then borrowed by a pro-player I know...who hasn't stopped going on about how good it sounds!  And he hasn't given it back to me yet ;)  And he does the slick demo videos for a very well respected acoustic guitar company!

    BUT - while I know the theory of tap tuning, I don't fully understand exactly where and how much to shave from which braces.  So it could be complete fluke and never to be repeated.  Which is why I'm building the new one.


    I'll let you know if it's a triumph or - probably more likely -  a flop :)
    It won't be a flop one thing I've learnt from the first time i strung my first build up which was a 00 style is that they mostly come out as good or much better than expected, better than you can buy mass made imo

    The trouble with tap tuning is you've got to build it to see how good it is and there could be quite a few until you're happy 

    I'll be making a sort of j185 but it wasn't a plan i just drew round a j200 and took an inch off the length and 3/4 inch out the middle to get what i think is a nicer shape, i will be trying om type bracing because i think mine was over engineered using j200 type bracing specs

    Be nice to build something else it's been years since i made one now

    Look forward to seeing it come together 
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    edited July 2019


    The trouble with tap tuning is you've got to build it to see how good it is and there could be quite a few until you're happy 

    I'll be making a sort of j185 but it wasn't a plan i just drew round a j200 and took an inch off the length and 3/4 inch out the middle to get what i think is a nicer shape, i will be trying om type bracing because i think mine was over engineered using j200 type bracing specs

    Be nice to build something else it's been years since i made one now

    Look forward to seeing it come together 
    Yes - totally agree ref the trial and error aspect of the tap tuning!  

    On the last one, I carried on removing material 'as much as I dared'.  So you are right - you don't actually know of you're there until you are coming down the other side!  And then it can be too late.

    While I can hear the difference at each major scrape, and I can also hear which harmonics are missing, nevertheless - other than whether it's low register or high register - what I don't know is exactly where to scrape to release the specific missing harmonics

    Majorly satisfying, though, when a note you didn't have before suddenly rings out clearly... 


    I wait with interest to see how yours develops
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    And most of the rest of the braces are on :)

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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    I love the look of the insides of a nice acoustic build, just shows how much care was taken on the rest it
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 3491
    I love the look of the insides of a nice acoustic build, just shows how much care was taken on the rest it
    The bracing of any acoustic/nylon string is the soul of the instrument!  The J-185 you told me about sounds like it'd be a great guitar.  

    Fine work though @Andyjr1515, clean and precise.  
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 3491
    That's really nice, haven't seen much limba on acoustics, I'd love to get one made later this year if i get time and try and remember what I'm supposed to be doing

    Let us know what the tones like compared to the usual woods used
    Here's a Limba/Korina Martin

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAWhO98YMck


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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    Sounds good :)
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    edited July 2019

    Well, this is probably as far as I dare go: 

     

    It will be a little while before I glue the top on so might have a further tweak but, as I said earlier, I don't really know how far to go - or where - so it's probably best leave it hereabouts.

    There is a great video here - the first 30 minutes is theory but skip to 31:29 and he demos tapping it at his starting point and then progressively as he mods the braces:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei5-DkVTrEE

     

    The slightly sobering thing is that I finish, soundwise, basically where he starts!   

    But, I think this is probably pretty much where my previous build was when I halted further tweaking so, hopefully, it will sound the same when it's finished...which was, after all, the purpose of the exercise.

    The only bit that completely escapes me (and did on the last build) is the flex on the bass side he talks about.  I've seen other folks wobble it like an Australian whatever-it's-called showing how flexible it is.  I do the same thing and it's as stiff as the proverbial board!

     

    Anyway, I'll pick it up in an hour or so and give a tap and, if it's as good as I'm going to get it, then get on with the exiting bit - gluing the top to the sides   

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