"The Game Changers" Vegan sports documentary

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jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 12258
Looks interesting, awaiting the inevitable backlash...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpglxHTJVM&t=1s

"OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
    I heard Joe Rogan talking about this today, he had a power lifter on who was on the world circuit and said the guy in the film is nowhere near world level. 

    There are currently no vegan or vegetarian top level power lifters or strong men. 

    World records can be pretty obscure apparently! 
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    VimFuego said:
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 
    Hello, vegan here. My gf is a vegan powerlifter. We are both constantly told that our diets are deficient, don't have enough protein etc etc.
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 12258
    I haven't seen it as it isn't out yet but the message I get is that the old fashioned idea of needing to eat meat to be strong and healthy is simply not true. Lots of people are just going to blank this as being pushed by vegans with an agenda. 
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    Fuengi said:
    I heard Joe Rogan talking about this today, he had a power lifter on who was on the world circuit and said the guy in the film is nowhere near world level. 

    There are currently no vegan or vegetarian top level power lifters or strong men. 

    World records can be pretty obscure apparently! 
    Google that one deeper. The carnist guy on Joe Rogan has zero trophies whatsoever. The vegan guy referred to has numerous European-level trophy, but has never won a world title, but still has a trophy count vastly above the other guy.
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.

    I imagine it's potentially possible, though, and would be relatively easy if you were a vegetarian, as you could consume whey and eggs just like the meat eaters.

    I personally know a world champion athlete in a combat sport who is a vegan, and has been for years, and he is in fantastic shape -- fast, fit, strong -- but he's definitely not big in the way a lifter would be (and it would extremely detrimental to him in his sport if he was).
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    Matt_McG said:
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.

    I imagine it's potentially possible, though, and would be relatively easy if you were a vegetarian, as you could consume whey and eggs just like the meat eaters.

    I personally know a world champion athlete in a combat sport who is a vegan, and has been for years, and he is in fantastic shape -- fast, fit, strong -- but he's definitely not big in the way a lifter would be (and it would extremely detrimental to him in his sport if he was).
    Wrong.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    Fuengi said:
    I heard Joe Rogan talking about this today, he had a power lifter on who was on the world circuit and said the guy in the film is nowhere near world level. 

    There are currently no vegan or vegetarian top level power lifters or strong men. 

    World records can be pretty obscure apparently! 


    I guess you mean this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGenwfzJJyA

    I think this guy is relatively small so you can't really make any comparison, it's hard to find up to date stats but this website states 5'6" and 282lb https://www.vegetarianbodybuilding.com/vegan-badass-patrik-baboumiam/

    Robert Oberst (in the Rogan video) is 6'7" and has competed at 400lb+.
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    Matt_McG said:
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.

    I imagine it's potentially possible, though, and would be relatively easy if you were a vegetarian, as you could consume whey and eggs just like the meat eaters.

    I personally know a world champion athlete in a combat sport who is a vegan, and has been for years, and he is in fantastic shape -- fast, fit, strong -- but he's definitely not big in the way a lifter would be (and it would extremely detrimental to him in his sport if he was).
    Wrong.
    You have an interested audience and the opportunity to inform why not take it 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    TimmyO said:
    Matt_McG said:
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.

    I imagine it's potentially possible, though, and would be relatively easy if you were a vegetarian, as you could consume whey and eggs just like the meat eaters.

    I personally know a world champion athlete in a combat sport who is a vegan, and has been for years, and he is in fantastic shape -- fast, fit, strong -- but he's definitely not big in the way a lifter would be (and it would extremely detrimental to him in his sport if he was).
    Wrong.
    You have an interested audience and the opportunity to inform why not take it 
    Because I'll be accused of being "sanctimonious". Us vegans have learned to recognise bait when it is set.
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 12258
    VimFuego said:
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 
    Well its certainly difficult to raise the topic with accusations of "sanctimony" or "smugness"  instantly being thrown around.

    What I do know is that I am a "quiet" vegan, who usually when eating in a group just get on with it until someone notices and then starts asking questions, and often get on the defensive when I give them an answer or just downright shit on the idea saying "nah I need me meat me" or somesuch.

    I cycle to work with a Jamaican lad who loves his chicken n rice, there are some big climbs as it up in the hills and he is always asking how I do it without eating meat. he's a cool guy but its like I've just stepped out of a spaceship.
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477
    VimFuego said:
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 
    Hello, vegan here. My gf is a vegan powerlifter. We are both constantly told that our diets are deficient, don't have enough protein etc etc.
    which is why I said anyone with half a brain. It's so important to actually read what is written and respond to that.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    VimFuego said:
    VimFuego said:
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 
    Hello, vegan here. My gf is a vegan powerlifter. We are both constantly told that our diets are deficient, don't have enough protein etc etc.
    which is why I said anyone with half a brain. It's so important to actually read what is written and respond to that.
    I get that; I'm suggesting that the unprovoked challenging of a lifestyle choice is perhaps more prevalent than it should be. There's a lot of otherwise very intelligent people who will still have a pop at vegans for no real reason, given half a chance.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    Matt_McG said:
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.

    I imagine it's potentially possible, though, and would be relatively easy if you were a vegetarian, as you could consume whey and eggs just like the meat eaters.

    I personally know a world champion athlete in a combat sport who is a vegan, and has been for years, and he is in fantastic shape -- fast, fit, strong -- but he's definitely not big in the way a lifter would be (and it would extremely detrimental to him in his sport if he was).
    Wrong.

    Part of the reason these guys are huge (besides any potential drug use) is they eat 10,000+ calories a day.  A lot of that comes from rice, pasta etc both of which would typically be vegan.

    By contrast a fighter usually has to stay in a weight class, so being big isn't usually the goal.
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  • RiftAmpsRiftAmps Frets: 3113
    tFB Trader
    Who gives a flying feck what someone else has for their dinner? I'm finding the anti-Vegan brigade to be a bit tiresome now, even though I personally eat everything under the sun. It's not compulsory, it's a choice, and a pretty awesome one at that.


    Matt_McG said:
    I think with lifters, it's extremely hard to get a very high protein intake on a vegan diet. It's not that you can't get the protein -- pulses, mixed grains, nuts, etc -- but that they come with a much higher side order of carbs and fat than the animal derived equivalents.
    Disagree. My friend is a body builder and personal trainer and most of her bodybuilding clients have switched over to a plant-based diet now. She says the recovery time between sessions is pretty much halved and DOMS is significantly reduced. Both massive benefits for body builders, I think you'll agree.
    *I no longer offer replacement speaker baffles*
    Rift Amplification
    Handwired Guitar Amplifiers
    Brackley, Northamptonshire
    www.riftamps.co.uk

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477
    VimFuego said:
    VimFuego said:
    not quite sure what the point is here, is it that vegan diets can be healthy? If so, I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever disputed it. But diets containing meat can also be healthy, but with significantly lower levels of sanctimony. 
    Hello, vegan here. My gf is a vegan powerlifter. We are both constantly told that our diets are deficient, don't have enough protein etc etc.
    which is why I said anyone with half a brain. It's so important to actually read what is written and respond to that.
    I get that; I'm suggesting that the unprovoked challenging of a lifestyle choice is perhaps more prevalent than it should be. There's a lot of otherwise very intelligent people who will still have a pop at vegans for no real reason, given half a chance.
    and plenty of vegans who are very quick to have a pop at omnivores. I used to spend a lot of time on sustainable living type forums, and the level of vitriol expressed from vegans could be astonishing. Quite literally I've seen people threatening to come round and eat peoples children.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477
    I think the thing to take away from this is that a vegan diet is not intrinsically healthy and a omnivore diet is not intrinsically unhealthy, healthy diets are healthy. And probably the most important piece of advice is take medical or dietary advice from a qualified and regulated professional and not from a fking youtube video. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 4641

    I think it is inevitable that there will be vegan champions in all sporting arenas at some point, but it's a numbers game, I would imagine as a percentage of all athletes around the world only a few percent would be vegan.

    But as or if that number increases then the chances of competing at the same level massively increase as well.

    No doubt vegan supplements will become better also, as the demand rises and more companies get on cashing in that growing market.
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 12258
    VimFuego said:
    I think the thing to take away from this is that a vegan diet is not intrinsically healthy and a omnivore diet is not intrinsically unhealthy, healthy diets are healthy. And probably the most important piece of advice is take medical or dietary advice from a qualified and regulated professional and not from a fking youtube video. 
    or common sense? i've never felt the need to go to a qualified person to feed my family, have you?
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    For what it's worth, my parents were vegans, I grew up vegan. I didn't start eating animal products until my twenties. I don't have any axe to grind regarding veganism. I was happy when I was a vegan, grew up healthy, and ate nice food.

    Googling for vegan protein powders, it looks like I'm wrong, in terms of what is on the market. There are low calorie vegan protein powders, _but_ none of them are complete proteins. But, you could get complete proteins by mixing up multiple sources of powders and similar products.
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