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  • Agree.  

    At the end or in the middle of the series the fans always seem to pick out a few players to vent their frustrations with and YJB seems to be the brunt of this year's frustrations.  Personally, I think the bigger problem are the ones identified above, the most severe failing is ECB's management of international players, there seems to often be an absence of looking to maximise to get the very best out of the players - just look at Joe Root for example sometimes he opened, batted at 3, whilst he gets the most runs at 4. 

    Also, IMO the player the test team has missed the most is Jon Trott.  Since he left the team the top order felt apart, middle order as well.

    The ECB shouldn't be asking who the next Jon Trott is but why English red ball cricket isn't producing players of such a nature. 

    Test cricket is about consistency over long periods of time. Adil Rashid looks decent at ODI level because batsmen are attacking him. He fails at Test level because the batsmen can wait for the long hop and dispatch him. Learning how to bowl over a long period is as essential for a bowler as learning how to bat for a long time is for a batsman. I was really lucky when I was 16 as my county side was in a festival where games were 60 overs with no bowling restrictions. Over that week I bowled 0 overs on Monday and then 24, 27, and nearly 20 overs across Tuesday to Thursday. For a 16 year old leggie in 34 degree heat, it was hard work and I was shagged for Friday's final and bowled utter gash for 20 overs (Chris Read whacked us all for a ton) but it taught me so much about sticking to a game plan and how to change things. I can honestly say I learnt more in that cricket week bowling those long spells than I did in all the 50 over stuff we'd played before and after. I wonder how many teenage spinners today would bowl a 27 over spell outside of 2nd XI cricket in this country.

    Today's wannabe England Test players get to playan erratic schedule of first-class matches and today's current Test players are playing fewer and fewer first-class matches with the drop in tour games before an international series starts and with central contracts restricting their county appearances. It's not hard to see why we've been so bad at producing Test-standard players over the last few years:

    YJB: His keeping has not been great this series and the batting has collapsed. Gets bowled far too much for a player of his ability. I'd drop him for the entire Test winter. He likes a challenge so set him the goal of playing Championship cricket early season next year, accept that he won't be keeping in Tests, and to get in that side by sheer weight of ODI and Championship runs combined. 

    Totally forgot to mention this marvel from Yorkshire's second finest:

    "Anderson, 38, and Broad, 33, are England's leading Test wicket-takers with 575 and 467 respectively. But Vaughan says England have to be "realistic" about the pair's prospects of reaching the next Ashes in 2021-22."

    "I don't think it is right both of them play now," Vaughan said."

    Jesus! We get one genuinely fast guy on the scene and suddenly the old boys have to be split up. Does Vaughan have some secret stash of opening bowlers hidden away like me hiding fags from my parents as a teenager? Outside of Jimmy, Stuey, and Jofey, we have the following options: 

    Woakes - crap away from home
    Wood - injured
    Stone - injured
    Finn - not coming back
    Curran - currently has 19 wickets in 7 Tests at home at the lovely average of 20.94. Averages 105 in four Tests away from home. 
    Toby Roland-Jones - untried away from home
    Craig Overton - third seamer at absolute best. Not an opening bowler. 
    Lewis Gregory - made some squads, bowled well for Somerset, might be useful in NZ but perhaps less so in South Africa (although Vernon Philander's continued existence shows nippy swing and seam has a place there)
    Jamie Overton - maybe South Africa. Wouldn't use him in NZ. 
    Jamie Porter - not a Test opening bowler

    It's like he's forgotten how quickly teams can fall apart after being successful. Of his 2005 Ashes squad, consider the state of them by the 2006-7 Ashes: Vaughan's knee had gone, Trescothick was flying home with his sad stress illness, Simon Jones hadn't played since Trent Bridge 2005, Ashley Giles packed up mid-tour and retired from all cricket by the end of 2007, Geraint Jones was dropped and never returned mid-series, Harmison was homesick and spraying it, and we were so desperate for quicks that we threw Saj Mahmood and a remodelled action/buggered up Jimmy at the Aussies. 

    We have three very good seamers who all crucially bowl a bit differently from one another. We shouldn't be splitting them up, we should be using them to our best advantage. 







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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Vaughan comes up with an interesting blend of crackpot and sense. He's okay during a game but some of his ideas about who should play and how they should play border on the bonkers. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    scrumhalf said:
    Vaughan comes up with an interesting blend of crackpot and sense. He's okay during a game but some of his ideas about who should play and how they should play border on the bonkers. 
    He annoys me.  I'm sure that TMS could get someone better.  Wonder if Gower would be interested.  He might be quite good on the radio.
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  • It's one of the things I have enjoyed so much about the Championship streams, having some knowledgeable non-hyperbolic commentators talking about the game. The Somerset games have had a number of walk ons this year ranging from Caddick being droll as ever, Jack Brooks during the last game, Andy Nash has talked several times. It makes a very refreshing change from even TMS which has been slowly sliding toward the Sky manner of presenting. 



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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4901
    crunchman said:
    scrumhalf said:
    Vaughan comes up with an interesting blend of crackpot and sense. He's okay during a game but some of his ideas about who should play and how they should play border on the bonkers. 
    He annoys me.  I'm sure that TMS could get someone better.  Wonder if Gower would be interested.  He might be quite good on the radio.
    Very good microphone technique, I've heard...

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Somerset tail needs to wag.
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  • "Anderson, 38, and Broad, 33, are England's leading Test wicket-takers with 575 and 467 respectively. But Vaughan says England have to be "realistic" about the pair's prospects of reaching the next Ashes in 2021-22."

    "I don't think it is right both of them play now," Vaughan said."

    This is the thing that pisses me off about English cricket, there seems to be a mindset there are no other teams or cricket of value unless it's the Ashes. 

    If England do not play their best team then it could be an embarrassment over the coming winter.  

    The 2 test series against NZ might be the one to really show the flaws of the team, right now NZ have a very decent bowling attack and over the last 18 months, there are 4 batsmen with averages of over 65 one of them's Steve Smith, the other 3 are Kiwis. 

    So unless the Kiwi team is taken seriously and unless the best English team is played which right now would include Broad, and Anderson if he is match fit, then there's a real chance they could lose the series against NZ.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413

    So unless the Kiwi team is taken seriously and unless the best English team is played which right now would include Broad, and Anderson if he is match fit, then there's a real chance they could lose the series against NZ.
    We will probably lose it with our best team.  Whichever bowlers we should pick, they should be decent in NZ conditions, but I don't fancy our batsmen to consistently get above 150.
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  • crunchman said:
    Somerset tail needs to wag.
    We're in deep shit now. Looks like it's going to come down to the final game at home against Essex, seeing how Essex have dispatched Surrey this morning. 



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  • "Anderson, 38, and Broad, 33, are England's leading Test wicket-takers with 575 and 467 respectively. But Vaughan says England have to be "realistic" about the pair's prospects of reaching the next Ashes in 2021-22."

    "I don't think it is right both of them play now," Vaughan said."

    This is the thing that pisses me off about English cricket, there seems to be a mindset there are no other teams or cricket of value unless it's the Ashes. 

    If England do not play their best team then it could be an embarrassment over the coming winter.  

    The 2 test series against NZ might be the one to really show the flaws of the team, right now NZ have a very decent bowling attack and over the last 18 months, there are 4 batsmen with averages of over 65 one of them's Steve Smith, the other 3 are Kiwis. 

    So unless the Kiwi team is taken seriously and unless the best English team is played which right now would include Broad, and Anderson if he is match fit, then there's a real chance they could lose the series against NZ.

    Totally agree. It's idiotic to think about the next Ashes series already. Comments like this devalue the NZ tour in the winter yet some of the same commentators are happy to laud a fine English performance against the same opponents (Stokes last time they were here anyone?). New Zealand are a good side with a batting line up ahead of us, a better wicketkeeper, and some very useful seam bowlers indeed. Bit up and down in the spin department but hey ho. 

    A defeat to NZ over the winter would certainly put the pressure on the Root captaincy. 



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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    Having hit a billion runs yesterday Stevo opened the bowling for Kent this morning and has only taken the two wickets so far. This after the last match when he bagged a five-fer in each innings.

    I think it's a pretty poor indictment of county championship skill levels.

    But great nonetheless if you're a Kent fan.
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  • Well played, Essex. You're going to beat Surrey, Somerset have been killed by a Kyle, and the weather forecast for next week's title decider at Taunton is fucking atrocious. 



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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Presumably SIbley has just booked his place on the tour to NZ.  215* followed by 109.
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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 429
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    crunchman said:
    Presumably SIbley has just booked his place on the tour to NZ.  215* followed by 109.
    yeah should do! Anyone been watching the pjama cricket final today? Does Pat Brown make the limited overs tours to NZ?
    What about Liam PLunkett not getting a white ball central contract? I can understand the login but he's not happy "disappointment is an understatement" I still think he has enough to offer until the Twenty20 world cup.
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  • Contract time again...

    https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/news/1349647/-ecb-announces-men-s-central-contracts-for-the-2019-20-season

    Test contracts: if the contracts start 1 October each year then for the 2018-19 season They ran from 1 Oct 2018 to 30 Sep 2019. In that time Sam Curran played six Tests (8 wickets at 38, 249 runs at 24), Jack Leach played eight (30 wickets at 24, 172 runs at 17 and the greatest not out in years). So why does Curran get a full contract and Leach is on the incremental? Maybe it's because SC played in a couple of ODI games. 

    It does say everything about the Bayliss era that we don't have a single spinner on a full Test contract. 

    ODI/T20: I'd be a bit miffed if I were Liam Plunkett in not getting one and seeing Joe Denly get one. 





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  • crunchman said:
    Presumably SIbley has just booked his place on the tour to NZ.  215* followed by 109.
    yeah should do! Anyone been watching the pjama cricket final today? Does Pat Brown make the limited overs tours to NZ?
    What about Liam PLunkett not getting a white ball central contract? I can understand the login but he's not happy "disappointment is an understatement" I still think he has enough to offer until the Twenty20 world cup.

    Sibley is a sure fire tip. What interests me was the Warwickshire coach Jim Troughton's words

    ""If there is talk about resting certain players for that series - I think it doesn't count as part of the Test Championship - so if there's an opportunity to do it, brilliant."

    That is a big indicator that we're not going to have a full strength side out there. Totally sensible given the schedule this year and the lack of TC status. So who do you rest? I see no point in resting Broad as he's a one-format player. Anderson should go to see if he's still got something to offer. I've said that I wouldn't take Archer because I'd want him fully fired up for South Africa. Perhaps he will go and play one format in NZ. 

    The obvious candidates for rest are Bairstow, Stokes, and Root. One is in terrible form, Stokes hasn't been fully fit bowling for a while, and Root has played a lot of cricket. Personally I'd not select all three of them and give the captaincy to either Broad or Anderson. There has been talk of Burns as a captaincy possibility. I wouldn't do it whilst he is still working out his game at Test level. With Jimmy and Broad, there's nothing to work out. 



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  • crunchman said:
    Presumably SIbley has just booked his place on the tour to NZ.  215* followed by 109.
    yeah should do! Anyone been watching the pjama cricket final today? Does Pat Brown make the limited overs tours to NZ?
    What about Liam PLunkett not getting a white ball central contract? I can understand the login but he's not happy "disappointment is an understatement" I still think he has enough to offer until the Twenty20 world cup.
    Pat Brown might get a T20 spot. There's nothing in his List A performances for Worcs at the minute that would justify his selection at this level. Suspect he will put his name up for the IPL auction. 



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  • Anyone watching Somerset v Essex on Sky? Nice to see them showing a CC game.

    Pitch is turning square on the first morning. Wonder whether there'll be some sort of penalty.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Stuckfast said:
    Anyone watching Somerset v Essex on Sky? Nice to see them showing a CC game.

    Pitch is turning square on the first morning. Wonder whether there'll be some sort of penalty.

    Stupid things is that Somerset have some quite decent seam bowlers.  Yes they also have Leach and Bess, but Essex are the one team where that is not such a big advantage because of Harmer.  They might have been better off preparing something that would suit the quicks a bit more.
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