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Can you do a PhD without doing a masters?

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  • I went straight from an undergraduate degree to reading for a Ph D but it was a long time ago, I don't know how common it would be now.

    If you do a degree in arts or humanities at a Scottish university they normally award an MA (Hons) as a first degree, or at least that used to be the case and I assume still is.  So there's a tradition of people going straight onto a Ph D.
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • martmart Frets: 5205
    NPP said:
    .... 
    All that said a PhD is a long, hard slog and you should know why you are doing it and how you will cope with the anxieties that develop along the way before embarking on it. ...
    This. I have probably over 100 friends with PhDs, and, like me, every one struggled with motivation in the middle - it’s a very lonely isolating thing to do, and 3-4 years with very little structure (completely unlike a bachelors degree). 
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4028

    If you do what you love your brain absorbs the information, makes it a bit easier....

    There was a lot of stress ,it is hard work.
    +1 on the do what you love.
    I've just done an MSc and it wasn't quite in an area I love. 
    In guitar terms it would be like thinking I'd signed up to do a dissertation on post-rock chord progressions and discovering that my supervisor was actually into Bluegrass and Rockabilly.  Yes, I managed to play along but it was a slog.
    I was way too far into it before I realised just how Rockabilly it was. 
    So really, really do your homework before committing is my nugget of wisdom.
    I know with PhD's they seldom work out as planned but I wasn't expecting this at master's level.
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  • Seems like his friend no longer has any interest =)
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11791
    mart said:
    NPP said:
    .... 
    All that said a PhD is a long, hard slog and you should know why you are doing it and how you will cope with the anxieties that develop along the way before embarking on it. ...
    This. I have probably over 100 friends with PhDs, and, like me, every one struggled with motivation in the middle - it’s a very lonely isolating thing to do, and 3-4 years with very little structure (completely unlike a bachelors degree). 
    yep, lots of very bright people drop out.
    Much more challenging in terms of will power and motivation than a BSc or MSc
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  • If anyone is curious, it seems that there are social mobility access routes to PhD's for people who don't necessarily meet all of the strict entry requirements for the regular routes.

    Bye!

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  • (and yes I'm looking into it)

    Bye!

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    (and yes I'm looking into it)
    I'm not sure you can do a PhD in tits.
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  • octatonic said:
    (and yes I'm looking into it)
    I'm not sure you can do a PhD in tits.
    Someone has to try!!!

    Bye!

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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    I think @NPP is right above.

    You can do it, and some programs will allow it, and some will not. And it would be common to be admitted onto some sort of provisional masters program and then convert over at some point, which would be quicker than doing them consecutively.

    My PhD program, it would have been incredibly rare. I knew of a couple of people who came straight in, but they had done 4 or 5 year dedicated programs in my subject (Philosophy), mostly at European universities and even then it was tricky to get admitted.

    For me, I had a Scottish MA (honours already so had done 4 solid years, but was still strongly encouraged to do the masters. That specific masters was (by reputation), "the hardest philosophy degree in the world", and it's not that unusual (or certainly wasn't in the past) to just do that, and never bother with the PhD.

    I'd concur with those who are recommending (if it's vocational) to do a masters and consider NOT doing a PhD. They are much harder work than anyone anticipates going in, and just getting the degree is only part of it.

    Funding and finding a way to support yourself are hard, fitting in teaching -- if you want to do it and go on to be an academic -- on top of that is harder still, and then you need to be seriously considering the fact that you will be going on the job market at the end, so networking, kissing the right people's arses, publishing, attending and presenting at conferences, and generally building your profile all take huge amounts of work.

    Because if you don't do that, and you apply for an academic or academic related job, you can be sure that there will be people you are up against who have spent 3 or 4 years assiduously building their reputation, publication record, teaching and "service" record, and so on, and they'll get the job, and you won't. It doesn't matter how good you are if no-one knows about you, and you don't have influential people in your field advocating for you.

    That said, if you are prepared to do the work -- and really, it's an unbelievable amount of work, it's the furthest away from a doss/skive you can imagine -- there can be really interesting things at the end of it.

    I'm glad I did mine, although I'm not an academic any more. But there was a LOT of pain along the way.
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  • mrkbmrkb Frets: 6637
    It can also be an issue if you subsequently appear overqualified for some jobs. I had a few interviewers ask why my PhD was going to be relevant to the role I was applying for - it wasn't, but the skill sets you develop to get a PhD (researching, summarising, technical writing, test development, data analysis, etc) are very transferrable.
    Karma......
    Ebay mark7777_1
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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 7076
    As someone currently undertaking postgraduate academic research I feel I should "chip in" as it were.

    titz is boss innit?
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    Yeah, @mrkb. While what I do isn't academic any more, I work with academics a lot, so the ability to talk their language helps. The ability to read huge amounts of stuff, and write up technical documents quickly is invaluable. So even the stuff that isn't relevant on paper, actually helps me do my job better than I would otherwise have been able to do.
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  • mrkb said:
    It can also be an issue if you subsequently appear overqualified for some jobs. I had a few interviewers ask why my PhD was going to be relevant to the role I was applying for - it wasn't, but the skill sets you develop to get a PhD (researching, summarising, technical writing, test development, data analysis, etc) are very transferrable.
    Same. I got to the point where I would have left it off if I knew I could lie convincingly about the 3.5 years this would have created. Luckily now I’m in a job where the transferable skills are a great asset.
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