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Getting good enough to play live

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  • Blackjack said:
    Hey guys, wow what a wonderful bunch you all are! Thank you so much for all the great replies.  I have not had chance to read them all thoroughly yet but rest assured that I will do later and will reply as is relevant! 
    Got rehearsal at 6pm with my guitar buddy that I have done the open mics with but this is all about doing stuff solo! 

    Thanks so much, I really am so grateful to you all and will be back later! 
    You're braver than I am, I envy you.  Keep On Keeping On! :)
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  • I was too shy to play in front of anyone for years and years.  One day I plucked up thr courage to join a band and i realised it wasn't anywhere as scary as i thought and i haven't looked back since.   The worst you imagine happening won't ever happen.  Thr audience want you to do well and will support you. 

    Go for it. 
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4028
    edited February 2020
    Blackjack said:
     ...would love to play live a bit more this year but not sure what I really need to be able to do to be good enough to do so.
    You don't need to be good enough.  That was the whole point.
    Spirit of '78
    Get up and play first then get good later.
    EDIT cos I sound a bit preachy!  What I mean is that playing live is what gets you good at playing live. 
    The Rezillos, Top of the Pops


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  • Stick with practising. Jam as much as you can. Lessons aren't always necessary, but could be quicker.

    Don't be afraid to jam with people you think are better than you. They might share tips. Watching them as you play along if they don't/can't describe stuff. We were all there.
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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9552
    PM’d
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • pmbomb said:
    Fuengi said:

    One of the guys at Water Rats (sorry, I can't remember who it was) gave us a great tip about using the vocal as a rhythm. Difficult to describe with text, but essentially he was saying don't slavishly follow the same timing as the track you are covering if it doesn't work for you. Use your own timing and vocal to create the rhythm. 
    That was @sev112 ;.

    And @pmbomb had these words of wisdom.  Which I'm trying to keep in mind as, like him, I did the Rock Project thing - but in just over a month I'll be doing my first actual proper gig in front of people who aren't family and friends.   Playing in front of about 120 people at a birthday / charity bash.  So if you've already done a bunch of open mics, you're already on the way.

    hey nice to hear from you.

    savour your moment - it passes very fast. let us know how it goes.
    Cheers, Matt.

    It's just a 'band' cobbled together from a bunch of ex-Rock Projecters, and we're only doing four songs.  Two of which have solos, and I know from RP experience that there's every chance my fingers will choose that point to turn to jelly.

    So, as others have said, it's a lot about confidence.  I make my living by standing up in front of groups of strangers and spouting - which would terrify some people - but I have no problem with it, because I know that I know what I'm talking about.  But stick me on a stage with a guitar on, and stuff that I can play quite happily at home gets twice as hard.  Which is almost certainly a feeling that everyone on here who gigs will recognise, or at least remember.  It's about getting to the point, I think, where you know that you're much more likely to pull it off than cock it up.  I know I'm not there yet.

    Oh, and so what if you only play songs with open chords?  There are literally thousands to choose from, and most people don't care how difficult the song is.  They just want to hear a song.

    FInally, to add to Matt's wisdom, I'll leave you with these words from the Anti-Nowhere League:

    You criticise us, you say we're shit.
    But we're up here, and we're doing it.
    So don't criticise the things we do.
    No fucker pays to go and see you.

    Just have a go.  What's the worst that could happen?
    Trading feedback | How to embed images using Imgur

    As for "when am I ready?"  You'll never be ready.  It works in reverse, you become ready by doing it.  - pmbomb


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  • munckee said:
    My 15 year old daughter has been playing for 6 months teaching herself and plays open chord songs with capo if necessary and sounds great when she performs live, better than me because she sings really nicely, doesnt try to play anything too complicated for her and isn’t afraid to make a mistake. 

    It it seems to me that it’s a state of mind that’s required more than a level. 

    Just go for it. 
    Thank you! Sounds like your daughter is doing really well. I totally agree, a lot of it IS state of mind.  Trouble is, my mind isn’t in a great state right now, which is why this thread is so helpful to me, knowing I am doing the right things to prepare! 
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  • Is there anyone who you can jam with? Losing with other people often speeds up the learning process massively. 
    I play twice a week with my guitar buddy and it has been really helpful. We have a lot of fun but I want to push myself more now and start going out on my own too! 
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  • pmbomb said:
    Fuengi said:

    One of the guys at Water Rats (sorry, I can't remember who it was) gave us a great tip about using the vocal as a rhythm. Difficult to describe with text, but essentially he was saying don't slavishly follow the same timing as the track you are covering if it doesn't work for you. Use your own timing and vocal to create the rhythm. 
    That was @sev112 ;.

    And @pmbomb had these words of wisdom.  Which I'm trying to keep in mind as, like him, I did the Rock Project thing - but in just over a month I'll be doing my first actual proper gig in front of people who aren't family and friends.   Playing in front of about 120 people at a birthday / charity bash.  So if you've already done a bunch of open mics, you're already on the way.

    hey nice to hear from you.

    savour your moment - it passes very fast. let us know how it goes.
    Aw thank you! It’s nice to be here! 
    I will indeed keep you all in the loop about how it’s going. It’s great to have something to work towards.
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  • Brocco said:
    Suggest picking a small collection of songs that have a simple structure but which have different things going on (entirely chord based, then something with a distinctive single note run, then something with arpeggio, etc) to offer progression, interest and a modest challenge when practicing on your own, then go and jam with others!

    A group of us in my neck of the woods who first met at one of the regonal jams organised by tFB now have a monthly jam going on locally, and we may even end up playing a few gigs this year!

    There are some great songs that do not have any lead parts at all, so don't let inexperience with playing lead put you off. As others have mentioned,  playing in time is a key thing to focus on if you would like to jam/gig, and have found playing along to tracks has really helped me with tempo and timing.

    Thank you! 
    I am pretty lucky as I have a good sense of tempo and timing (my guitar teachers words not mine, lol) and it is a big help.  I have got a fair collection of songs that I am pretty happy with and been playing for a while but also got a few new ones that I want to learn to. 

    Really glad you have got your jam group going.  Sounds like a great idea! 
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  • viz said:
    Sounds like switching quickly from chord to chord would be a good thing to focus on, in a really proactive, determined way. @Old_Swanner has some vids / thoughts on this. 
    Yep ... the systematic approach always works however miserably "keep doing it and you'll get it" has failed. 

    Blackjack said:
    I am a perpetual beginner ... struggling to get barre chords (can play them ok once I have sorted out my fingers but just cannot seem to get to them in a song).
    Your next challenge is to learn to change the barre chords to themselves ... see this video for the basic idea  (Did you ever get any joy from examining the Amaj9 to E9 change Viz?)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-93m83B8Qk


    Thank you! I will give that a good watch! 
    I really appreciate all the help
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  • sev112 said:
    I very rarely use 6 string barres
    i play mostly 3 or 4 string chords, and often just leave the top E open

    i usually play in either C or G, with a capo on frets 1 to 4 (very occasionally 5) so that I can play C scale chords or G scale chords
    This means I am always playing the same simple shapes over and over, and hence muscle memory does most of the jobs

    In C 
    Dm I don’t play the top string, so don’t need to move hand position to go from C
    Em is easy
    Fmaj I almost always play Fmaj 7, and don’t play the bottom string 
    G I play with my bottom 3 fingers of left hand, leaving left index finger to play the C on 1st fret B string, little finger often just plays the D on 3rd fret.
    Am is easy
    Bm I play in C position, just middle finger on B (2nd fret A string) and my little finger on the D (3fret B string).

    In G
    G as above
    Am as above
    Bm as above
    C as above
    Dmajor I play middle finger F# (low E 2nd fret) and ignore the top E string, but it sounds nice opem
    Em easy
    F# hardly play top3 or bottom 3 strings, but hardly ever needed

    So no B7, Bmajor, F#minor, C#minor, G#, Major 7th etc type chords to remember and move your hand round

    And almost all st all of those chords are played without changing my hand or wrist position!  Which is what it makes it easier



    remember, that’s to make PERFORMING (I.e. singing and entertaining the audience) easier!  It’s not to make the most beautiful, technically complex guitar playing
    (And for the theoretical of you, yes, I know I am actually playing lots of 7ths, 9ths, 6ths, sus4 and sus2 with that minimalist approach, but that’s no bad thing.


    Thank you very much! I will investigate and experiment with that! Anything to make life easier! 
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  • octatonic said:
    Blackjack said:
    i am hoping you guys can help me.  I am a perpetual beginner, been playing for 6 years having started off having lessons and got on well. However, teacher moved away, ended up jobless and progress has pretty much dried up.  I am stuck in a bloody great pot hole, only playing songs with strummed open chords, struggling to get barre chords (can play them ok once I have sorted out my fingers but just cannot seem to get to them in a song) and not got any finger picking or soloing skills.

    I have done a few open mic nights and enjoyed it and would love to play live a bit more this year but not sure what I really need to be able to do to be good enough to do so. Can any of you help me please? This middle aged lady would really appreciate your help! Thank you!! 
    I can probably help here but I'd need to know a few things.

    Are you playing electric or acoustic?
    How do you practice? Playing scales, or songs? Or just noodle?
    How do you approach practice time- is it a block of an hour or so, or do you pick it up and put it down a few times a day?
    Can. you harmonise the major scale?

    It isn't just practice, practice, practice- it is practicing intelligently.
    I've know people who play regularly and haven't really progressed in years because they are going over the same stuff they already know.
    With the right approach and the commitment to practice you can get gig ready in a few months to a year.

    One thing I will say that almost all students get wrong is to rush.
    When forming chords take your time to do it perfectly and work on speeding up perfect form over time.
    The wrong way to do it is to imperfectly form the chord and rush to the next one.
    All you do with that is to reinforce the wrong way to do it.
    It is much harder to unlearn a bad habit than it is to form a new but good one.
    Thank you so much!

    Ok, to answer your questions..

    i play both acoustic and electric, depending on what suits the song best
    When I practise, I tend to start off by playing one or two songs that I know well just to get my hands warmed up, then I spend a while working on a technique that I am trying to improve on or scales, then I finish off by working on any new songs that I am learning. 
    My approach to practise time varies depending on what is happening that day.  I like to try to set time aside to focus on my practise but on busier days or days when I am playing with my guitar buddy in the evening I will tend to pick it up and put it down to make sure I have still done something.
    Sadly I can’t harmonise over a scale. I do need to work more in theory to be better at stuff like that. I do have a gaping hole there I am afraid.

    Hope this answers your questions and thanks loads for helping me. 
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  • pmbomb said:
    Fuengi said:

    One of the guys at Water Rats (sorry, I can't remember who it was) gave us a great tip about using the vocal as a rhythm. Difficult to describe with text, but essentially he was saying don't slavishly follow the same timing as the track you are covering if it doesn't work for you. Use your own timing and vocal to create the rhythm. 
    That was @sev112 ;.

    And @pmbomb had these words of wisdom.  Which I'm trying to keep in mind as, like him, I did the Rock Project thing - but in just over a month I'll be doing my first actual proper gig in front of people who aren't family and friends.   Playing in front of about 120 people at a birthday / charity bash.  So if you've already done a bunch of open mics, you're already on the way.

    hey nice to hear from you.

    savour your moment - it passes very fast. let us know how it goes.
    Cheers, Matt.

    It's just a 'band' cobbled together from a bunch of ex-Rock Projecters, and we're only doing four songs.  Two of which have solos, and I know from RP experience that there's every chance my fingers will choose that point to turn to jelly.

    So, as others have said, it's a lot about confidence.  I make my living by standing up in front of groups of strangers and spouting - which would terrify some people - but I have no problem with it, because I know that I know what I'm talking about.  But stick me on a stage with a guitar on, and stuff that I can play quite happily at home gets twice as hard.  Which is almost certainly a feeling that everyone on here who gigs will recognise, or at least remember.  It's about getting to the point, I think, where you know that you're much more likely to pull it off than cock it up.  I know I'm not there yet.

    Oh, and so what if you only play songs with open chords?  There are literally thousands to choose from, and most people don't care how difficult the song is.  They just want to hear a song.

    FInally, to add to Matt's wisdom, I'll leave you with these words from the Anti-Nowhere League:

    You criticise us, you say we're shit.
    But we're up here, and we're doing it.
    So don't criticise the things we do.
    No fucker pays to go and see you.

    Just have a go.  What's the worst that could happen?
    I love that quote!! 
    What a great thing to keep in mind. I have fuck all self confidence in general (if I am totally honest, I hate myself) but something there really resonated with me. Thank you, thank you loads. 
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  • Thank you so much to all of you! 

    I will be going through all your comments again and again and taking from all of them. You are a great bunch for helping me like this! 
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  • JonathangusJonathangus Frets: 4436
    pmbomb said:
    Fuengi said:

    One of the guys at Water Rats (sorry, I can't remember who it was) gave us a great tip about using the vocal as a rhythm. Difficult to describe with text, but essentially he was saying don't slavishly follow the same timing as the track you are covering if it doesn't work for you. Use your own timing and vocal to create the rhythm. 
    That was @sev112 ;.

    And @pmbomb had these words of wisdom.  Which I'm trying to keep in mind as, like him, I did the Rock Project thing - but in just over a month I'll be doing my first actual proper gig in front of people who aren't family and friends.   Playing in front of about 120 people at a birthday / charity bash.  So if you've already done a bunch of open mics, you're already on the way.

    hey nice to hear from you.

    savour your moment - it passes very fast. let us know how it goes.
    Cheers, Matt.

    It's just a 'band' cobbled together from a bunch of ex-Rock Projecters, and we're only doing four songs.  Two of which have solos, and I know from RP experience that there's every chance my fingers will choose that point to turn to jelly.

    So, as others have said, it's a lot about confidence.  I make my living by standing up in front of groups of strangers and spouting - which would terrify some people - but I have no problem with it, because I know that I know what I'm talking about.  But stick me on a stage with a guitar on, and stuff that I can play quite happily at home gets twice as hard.  Which is almost certainly a feeling that everyone on here who gigs will recognise, or at least remember.  It's about getting to the point, I think, where you know that you're much more likely to pull it off than cock it up.  I know I'm not there yet.

    Oh, and so what if you only play songs with open chords?  There are literally thousands to choose from, and most people don't care how difficult the song is.  They just want to hear a song.

    FInally, to add to Matt's wisdom, I'll leave you with these words from the Anti-Nowhere League:

    You criticise us, you say we're shit.
    But we're up here, and we're doing it.
    So don't criticise the things we do.
    No fucker pays to go and see you.

    Just have a go.  What's the worst that could happen?
    OK, so here's a snippet from Saturday night:



    And no, I didn't quite nail the solo, but I didn't balls it up completely either.  I'd been playing it pretty well in rehearsal, and just told myself "you've got this" rather than "you're going to cock it up".  Just try to get yourself in the right mindset (not always easy, I know), and you'll be halfway there.
    Trading feedback | How to embed images using Imgur

    As for "when am I ready?"  You'll never be ready.  It works in reverse, you become ready by doing it.  - pmbomb


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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    edited March 2020
    good work. dood I'm the master at not quite nailing solos, you're an amateur. punters still happy!
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  • JonathangusJonathangus Frets: 4436
    Cheers, Matt.

    Yeah, I'm definitely an amateur...  :)
    Trading feedback | How to embed images using Imgur

    As for "when am I ready?"  You'll never be ready.  It works in reverse, you become ready by doing it.  - pmbomb


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