Who else has had their head turned upside-down with this famous intro?

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Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 24
edited January 2020 in Technique
Without hearing the count-in we are tricked into hearing the first hit as the "One" beat.  It's not, as I show below!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ySZOPPDD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn6PVLFW5tk
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    I think it would be easier to treat it as an extra half beat before the vocals come in than to displace everything forwards half a beat. Granted it works out the same. 
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  • Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 24
    edited January 2020
    Check out this live version:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwN60xWnfhs

    Here we get the benefit of hearing a (16th note) count-in from Glenn Frey confirming that the first guitar hit comes before the beat.  On the studio version the count-in is omitted and we can easily (wrongly) hear the pattern displaced by half a beat and weirdly sounding exactly like a beginner's "basic/campfire" strum (D-DU-UDU).

    My version is drawn up in 8th notes rather than 16th but the timing is the same.  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ... "This Charming Man" by the Smiths which starts on beat 2 ... "Lonely Boy" by Andrew Gold where the offbeats can pull us upside-down   If anyone knows any more I'd love to hear them.
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    edited January 2020
    AC/DC - Livewire has a slightly ambigious intro..



    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 24
    edited January 2020
    AC/DC - Livewire has a slightly ambigious intro..

    That band is a great source of "offbeat" intros though there's usually enough there to define the first beat clearly.  In Live Wire the bass is laying down the count in 8th notes and the guitar hits land on the "and" of beat 4 just like the lead guitar hits in Take it Easy!

    I've seen Highway to Hell cause confusion a few times.  It starts on the "and" of beat 3 as does my favourite ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0hEDUEXK-c 
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  • It's called a "pick up bar" in theory speak, the notes are "pick up note(s)".   When a song has a pick up bar the last bar of the song will have just the number of beats that are missing from the pick up bar. 

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • It's called a "pick up bar" in theory speak, the notes are "pick up note(s)".   When a song has a pick up bar the last bar of the song will have just the number of beats that are missing from the pick up bar. 
    A.k.a. an anacrusis
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  • Here's an old thread discussing exactly this issue.  Plenty of variety and another guy looking at Take it Easy in there.

    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/songs-where-you-hear-the-intro-in-a-different-time-signature-than-it-actually-is.254841/page-7

    Seeing the Police mentioned in there now reminds me that I used to hear "Walking on the Moon" upside-down for the longest time.  May have to add that to my bucket list.
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  • gjonesygjonesy Frets: 145
    life's been good - joe walsh is another
    in fact there's a series of vids on you tube about this

    https://youtu.be/bISlb3byI6k
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Sex On Fire is a great example, even just listening to it throws me every time.  Reggae music as well but that's probably my screwed up sense of timing. 
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  • gjonesy said:
    life's been good - joe walsh is another
    in fact there's a series of vids on you tube about this

    Superb stuff ... I made a link to list the full series!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Richiesos/search?query=f-ing+beat

    He has a new subscriber and I'll look forward to having a dig through!
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  • Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
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  • paul_xt said:
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
    Just had a listen and it's got me ... what part of the count is that first guitar hit on?
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  • paul_xt said:
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
    Just had a listen and it's got me ... what part of the count is that first guitar hit on?
    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
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  • digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
    What a Pandora's box. Glad I don't have to learn that one for the weekend!
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590

    ...  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ...
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly, but then I’ve watched people clapping along in 4:4 whatever the time signature.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
    What a Pandora's box. Glad I don't have to learn that one for the weekend!
    Yep it’s just on the 1. It’s fine if you tap your foot unwaveringly!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Roland said:

    ...  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ...
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly...
    Yes it starts on the 4 the way I hear it.

    We had a problem in our band with Sex On Fire. I explained the way I count it and had a friendly disagreement with our drummer who heard it differently. But when just the two of us played it together we were perfectly in sync with each other. It seemed to be the rest of the band were off, so in the end we gave up and decided to start it with the chorus.

    It's not a competition.
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  •  in the end we gave up and decided to start it with the chorus.
    :) has to be done sometimes!

    Roland said:
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly, but then I’ve watched people clapping along in 4:4 whatever the time signature.
    Better an incorrect version that gets them clapping than a correct version that doesn't!

    Can always tweak things at a later date anyway ... send your band members a link to this examination by Paul Davids ... even non-musicians can enjoy his videos 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slDKUaJFNfE
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    With Sex on Fire it's pretty obvious where the 1 is but it's the drummers who tend to come in on the wrong beat, it's not the guitarist who plays it wrong. But then a lot of drummers in covers bands are lazy gits who basically just have a quick listen and don't learn the song properly . Pet hate of mine that ! 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • viz said:

    Yep it’s just on the 1. It’s fine if you tap your foot unwaveringly!
    digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.

    Thanks gents, I'm with you on that now.

    Is it doable to start that second guitar part in the right place using just Dave's (delay effected) strums as the guide?
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