Klein build

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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    edited June 2020
    Thanks @PeteC. I’m wondering whether that grain will stay straight. Having profiled the neck to match my elliptical templates I decided to take the thickness down to 21mm between the 3rd and 5th frets, rising to 23mm at the 12th. One of the joys of building necks is being able to profile them based on feel.

    So we get to the decision on side dots. Normally I’d put 2mm black dots into the maple fretboard. However the fretboard is only 3mm deep. The obvious (to me) solution is to centre the dots on the line between light and dark wood. Should I stay with 2mm, or get something bigger? Should they be black or white? 

    Time for a tried and tested approach - go and have a cup of tea, and if that doesn’t work have a beer and think about it over night. This is turning into a two pint problem.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited June 2020
    Looking good, nice work on the neck. Neck building looks to be so difficult, I appreciate the skills involved, but it's way beyond my ability. Excellent work.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    edited June 2020
    Side dots and frets today. I decided to use 2mm black dots in the Maple fretboard, and line them up against the Maple/Ovangkol boundary. Nothing exciting. Today’s innovation was using a fret shaped caul in my drill press:



    It felt quite strange not using a hammer, with its tap tap Tap sequence. The drill press is much faster, and you don’t run the risk of deforming the fret profile. Still, it’s easy not to trust the new technology. I kept peering at the frets. They look tight, and don’t budge when I experiment with the hammer. I’ll file down the fret ends tonight, but will give the neck a chance to settle down before levelling.

    The fretwire is Jescar FW47095 EVO Gold. I like the colour and hardness. Those red handled cutters were bought specially to cut it, and don’t get used for anything else.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    A consequence of the lockdown is that my local diy sheds have stopped cutting sheet materials, and run out of mdf. The body template used up the last of my mdf, and I can’t buy any more. So I’m having to make neck and bridge templates out of the remnants. The neck cavity is routed to 19mm depth, which means that the fretboard just clears the body surface. The wood, whatever it is, machines beautifully. For the first time I can hold the body and know that the neck is in the right position.



    Next step is to route out a cavity so that I can inset the J-Custom bridge/tuner block by about 5mm. Before doing that I‘m pausing to confirm that I do actually want to use the J-Custom, rather than a surface mounted Hipshot which would be less work and lighter.

    The build is coming in at 3.5kg. That’s allowing for reducing the body thickness from the current 50mm, heavy chamfering, and hollowing out an oversize cavity for the controls
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • DrBobDrBob Frets: 2998
    Looking killer !

    I’ve wanted a Klein since the 90s but it’s just never been feasible with their rarity/cost.

    Seeing what you’re achieving does make me wonder whether I could make one
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    @Dr Bob. The standard Klein design isn’t that difficult to build. You could buy a flat neck, ie not one with an angled Gibson style head, and cut the head off. You’d need the tools to cut your own body out of a slab of wood: jig saw, router and sander. All of the metal parts are available, although a workable tuner bridge isn’t cheap. 

    My problem is that I like trying different ideas. This time it’s a curve body, machine screws and inserts for the neck joint, some fancy pickups, and a modified control layout. I’ve spent two days sticking wooden knobs onto the body with double sided tape, and trying how they would work in different playing positions. I don’t like the 5-way switch over near the neck as it is in the Klein design,



    and if I put the switch behind or above the knobs then the control cavity has to be small and cramped, and there’s not a lot of wood around it



    Ash tells me the Brass Knuckle pickups are in the post. I’ll try them for size before finalising the control cavity shape and position. 
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    The pickups arrived in Saturday’s post, which allowed me to determine how thin I can make the body. I want to mount the pickups using threaded inserts, which means 35mm. Since I’ve got 50mm to play with I’m going to make the most of it, and curve the body in three dimensions around the player. So much for following the Klein design, but the end result should be even more ergonomic.

    With contour lines marked out I assembled the router planing frame and started work. My ancient router doesn’t have any form of chip extraction, so it’s messy work.


    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    Great progress so far, @Roland and I like the idea of 3D curves being added :)
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 27345
    I was going to say it's good to see something different being made here.

    But then I realised that most of the M&M builds are different in one way or another!

    So it's good to see one of these being made and your approach to solving the different challenges that this design creates.


    Tip for the extraction ... just clamp an extraction hose somewhere on your jig - probably towards the front as you've already got the barriers at the side/back, maybe to the underside of your sled.  It won't capture all the bits, but it'll grab a lot of them.
    Having trouble posting images here?  This might help.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    I’ve tried clamping the vacuum hose to the jig, but it only picks up a small amount of the debris, and often gets it the way. Instead I clamp the hose to the workbench, or to the beam above it, leaving half a metre or so loose, and hoover over the jig between router runs.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    TTony said:
    I was going to say it's good to see something different being made here.

    But then I realised that most of the M&M builds are different in one way or another!

    So it's good to see one of these being made and your approach to solving the different challenges that this design creates.
    That’s what I enjoy about this section. It’s often the small details, like Graham’s double holes for pickup wiring, that give those Ahhh moments.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    edited July 2020
    While we’re all enthusing about wood grain I thought I’d drop this one into the fray. Whilst carving the belly chamfer I occasionally pause, wipe off the dust with white spirit, and check the shape for fit. This got me thinking about a coat of black, sanded almost off, to bring out the grain before oiling.


    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    Nice.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    My To Do list for this guitar says “Profile body”. If I had stuck to the Klein plan then the slab body would have had a quick run ‘round with the 1/2” roundover bit, and a visit to the bobbin and plate sanders for the belly and forearm champfers. However the 5way superswitch needs a deeper body. In keeping with the ergonomic principle I also wanted to achieve more of a wrap around. It’s more like having a suit made, with frequent fittings.

    It’s difficult to show what’s going on. Do you remember those pictures from the Apollo moon landings where the lighting makes it difficult to see how deep a crater is, and how steep it’s sides. So here’s the current state of play on lunar surface:



    The hole at bottom left is a massive router tear-out which will get lost in the round-over. The shape was achieved by routing contours, followed by rasps, cabinet scrapers, and then sanding. There’s a lot more sanding to do yet.

    This is a shot of the contour lines going in:


    The top gives an idea of how it will eventually wrap around the player.



    There’s another 5mm to come off the overall thickness, and the sides will be thinned down a lot more. The edges will then be rounded over. 
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    MLten80 said:
    Nightmare!! I have an 18° hipshot ish black baseplate going cheap if you did decide to go multiscale lol  
     Shame looks like it would have been the ideal part 
    Maybe the next build, or the one after that. If this guitar turns out too heavy then I’ll make a thinner one, for which I’ve already got a Hipshot tuner/bridge which is a lot lighter than the J Custom. Otherwise I might go for a fanned fret neck.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16547


    Makes me think of some of Rick Toon's more organically shaped ergonomic guitars.

    If it's too heavy, keep carving ;)
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  • fabienfabien Frets: 0
    Beautiful!
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8591
    Judging by the volume of dust and shavings it’s been a busy day carving and sanding. This curved body profile malarkey definitely isn’t a commercial proposition. It also presents the challenge of cutting control cavities when the surface isn’t flat. 

    I’ve reverted to Klein’s design with the pickup switch at the neck end. Two reasons. There isn’t quite enough room to squash two knobs and a switch below the tuners. I can fit a cavity in, but the controls would be too close for easy switching mid song. I’m constantly fiddling with volume and tone, and want to hit the knobs easily. It also means that the body can be a lot thinner, except under the switch, which saves a fair bit of weight.

    Rather than make a pair of templates for each cavity I’m going to cut the first 20mm of the cavities freehand, using a combination of Forstner bits and chisel, then route to depth with a guided bit. Only the recesses for the covers will have templates. Covers need to go in next, before I finish the profiling, because the top surfaces need to be profiled too.

    Something else I haven’t decided is the pickup combinations. Each coil has six magnets, so there’s no screw/slug decision. I’m thinking:
    1. Neck humbucker
    2. Neck outer coil
    3. Both inner coils
    4. Bridge outer coil
    5. Bridge humbucker.
    but I know some people use a combination of humbucker and single coil in positions 2 and 4.

    Gratuitous picture of the pickups:


    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • normula1normula1 Frets: 639
    In my PRS I have it wired
    Bridge Humbucker
    Both partial out of phase
    Both in phase
    Bridge Humbucker & Neck outer coil (strictly speaking it's a partial split)
    Neck Humbucker

    Then a push pull to partial split the coils
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  • normula1normula1 Frets: 639
    looking superb BTW
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