Writing a song with science! Well theory.

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I’m trying to get myself to a working understanding of theory. 
My plan is to write a song based on theory. 
The verse will be in Aminor, with the chorus in Cmaj (it’s relative major) to give a happier tone to the chorus. 
I’ll pick a common 3 chord trick for the verse, and a 4 chord for the chorus. 
Turn around will be In Aminor.

for the melody lines I’m going to pick up on the chord tones in each chord and the minor for the A, likewise for the C 




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Comments

  • So the verse is going to be on 
    1-4-5 (Am,Dm,Em)
    and the turn around is 
    2,5,1 bm7b5, Em,Am

    And we’ll try 1,6,4,5 for the Chorus so that’s C,Am,F,G 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited June 2020
    You can always make the E a major chord (or a dominant 7th) if you fancy, because even though that doesn’t “fit” in Aeolian, it’s perfectly acceptable since Bach’s and Vivaldi’s time to do so. On the other hand you don’t have to! It’s nice as an Em too. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Interesting, I’d subconsciously done that in a couple of places Amin, Dmin, E seems more natural than the Emin 
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Try this for the turnaround

    Instead of going straight to the V chord, make that a ii V

    So:

    Am7 Dm7 Bm7b5 E alt

    Next, try a flat 5 substitution on the ii chord.

    Am7 Dm7 F7 E alt

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited June 2020
    octatonic said:
    Try this for the turnaround

    Instead of going straight to the V chord, make that a ii V

    So:

    Am7 Dm7 Bm7b5 E alt

    Next, try a flat 5 substitution on the ii chord.

    Am7 Dm7 F7 E alt

    Lovely! 

    Or you could sub the E alt, so 

    Am7 Dm7 Bm7b5, Bbm7b5 (just slide down a semitone), 

    then back to Am. 

    to cheat and make it easy your B chord could be:  7 8 9 10 10 x

    and your Bb: 6 7 8 9 9 x
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Good call! ^^^
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Interesting, I’d subconsciously done that in a couple of places Amin, Dmin, E seems more natural than the Emin 
    Yep - it’s because giving the V chord a major 3rd (a G# in this case) provides what’s called a “leading note” to the i chord. 

    That leading note helps make the melody stronger. It happens automatically in major keys but none of the minor modes have it, unless you deliberately allow it.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    This is wrong
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited June 2020
    viz said:
    Interesting, I’d subconsciously done that in a couple of places Amin, Dmin, E seems more natural than the Emin 
    Yep - it’s because giving the V chord a major 3rd (a G# in this case) provides what’s called a “leading note” to the i chord. 

    That leading note helps make the melody stronger. It happens automatically in major keys but none of the minor modes have it, unless you deliberately allow it.
    I view that as turning the Aeolian mode into the harmonic minor scale. I think of (and hear) the harmonic minor scale as the Aeolian mode but with a major 7th.

    It's not a competition.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    viz said:
    Interesting, I’d subconsciously done that in a couple of places Amin, Dmin, E seems more natural than the Emin 
    Yep - it’s because giving the V chord a major 3rd (a G# in this case) provides what’s called a “leading note” to the i chord. 

    That leading note helps make the melody stronger. It happens automatically in major keys but none of the minor modes have it, unless you deliberately allow it.
    I view that as turning the Aeolian mode into the harmonic minor scale. I think of (and hear) the harmonic minor scale as the Aeolian mode but with a major 7th.

    Correct. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643

    This is wrong
    What is wrong, @polarityman?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    The concept of writing a song from theory.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Whilst I can agree about writing from theory risking avoiding musical inspiration this is an exercise to help the OP
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • GrangousierGrangousier Frets: 2620
    I suspect, though I may be wrong, that to get the effect of modulating to a major, it would need to be A major, rather than just shifting modes - in particular, that shift from the C natural to the C sharp. Otherwise nothing would change, so you wouldn't notice a difference. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    I suspect, though I may be wrong, that to get the effect of modulating to a major, it would need to be A major, rather than just shifting modes - in particular, that shift from the C natural to the C sharp. Otherwise nothing would change, so you wouldn't notice a difference. 
    Well both are possible. Shifting from minor to major with the same home note has one effect; shifting up a minor 3rd to the relative major has another. Both are often deployed. 


    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    The concept of writing a song from theory.
    Ah. Yes I understand. Well, inspiration comes from the heart not the theory, but most great composers were pretty damn good at theory so I think it’s second nature to use it. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    edited June 2020
    The concept of writing a song from theory.
    Roland said:
    Whilst I can agree about writing from theory risking avoiding musical inspiration this is an exercise to help the OP
    I wouldn't normally write from theory (mainly because my theory is so poor) but I was doing some scales work the other day which lead me on to a chord sequence that I probably come across under normal circumstances and this triggered a brand new song - so yes, it has its uses.

    Of course the thing that made it a song rather than another 'idea' was the hook line.  Don't ask me where those come from - they just do.
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  • The concept of writing a song from theory.
    Well we deconstruct them with theory... my aim is to see if I am understanding what I’m hearing by building up to a song with known sections. 
    I hear about people saying to play jazz find the 251’s well if I can’t pull them out of a sequence how do I know that they are there. 

    Why not create a song and include them and become conscious of what’s there? 

    I don’t doubt it won’t be a modern classic :-) but it’s part of the learning journey. 

    I am currently consciously incompetent at theory.   
    I need to become consciously competent - at which point in expect to churn out the same basic noise at any other nit wit. 

    Unconsciously being able to write a solo that follows the chords is where I’d like to be, not just blazing away in a blues box knowing I have no ‘bad’ notes but by definition also having no extra ‘good notes’ 
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Hmmm brilliant music has been created without the need for theory. Brilliant music has been created because of theory, and the opposite is true in both instances. 

    @Lesgrandepotato keep at it if that’s something that you have a desire to improve on. 
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