8x10 cab transport question

fretmeister · June 2020

Tex Mexico said:

fretmeister said:

A GR or Barefaced of equivalent power handling is louder, has better dispersion and is far easier to move about. The Barefaced 1x12 + HF unit Big Baby 2 moves as much air as a good old school 4x10. Their 2x12 will shift more air than the classic Ampeg 8x10.

BF still make an 8x10. It's under half the weight of the Ampeg PRO 8x10 (they were 215lb, the BF is 79lb) and has a max output of 137db at 1 metre.

Modern speaker tech has come along so much it's almost unrecognisable..

MattBanshee said:

I'm not sure that even Glasto level acts even need them any more now that DIs, monitoring and lightweight, high-spec speakers are a thing.

So I've been out of the game for a few years now and I accept that tech has definitely come on some fair distance in the past few years, but I do remember the first iterations of lightweight bass cabs with neo speakers and smaller format cabs that used coaxial instead of adjacent speakers, and certainly at the time even the super-expensive ones struggled to reproduce fundamental frequencies. I remember trying out I think a Markbass cab or combo with a four-figure price-tag and thinking it sounded like a toy even compared to the cheapo Hartke 4x10 next to it. It was loud, for sure, but it was all in the midrange.

Like I said I'm sure there's been substantial improvements and I'm nothing like a physics whiz but I still have a lasting prejudice that in order to produce wide and slow sound waves you need a big heavy cab.

The Barefaced website has a detailed explanation. https://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm

The amount of air that can be moved is a product of the size of the cone AND how much that cone can move. A large cone moving so slightly you can't see it can move less air than a much smaller cone that can travel far more. Modern cones move a huge amount compared to older designs.

The layout of the speakers is also an issue. A 2x10 placed upright will have a better horizontal spread than the same cab placed flat. The wave from the speakers does not suffer from as much cancellation in line with the speakers, but suffers more against the line. It's one of the reasons line arrays work well - a single vertical row of speakers spreads sideways far more efficiently.

Cab size does go to sound but heavy is not needed, and in fact it was never needed really. It's just that a heavy box is easier to make rigid than a light box.

A heavy box with 1 inch ply relies on that massive wood weight for rigidity. The wood does not need to be that thick and heavy. As much as neodynium magnets have lowered the weight of the drivers, learning how to brace a cab internally has meant the wall thickness can be reduced by more than 50%.

That's half the weight gone already.

You are right in that some modern cabs are very mid pushed. That is not actually the fault of the technology. Mark Bass, until more recent models anyway, very much had a smooth mids sound. Just like Ampeg had their own signature sound. It's not a fault of the tech, it's just the designers wanted a certain sound. So you experienced a modern smooth sounding amp with even smoother sounding cabs. The MB heads sound completely different with a different cab. I do like Mark Bass heads, but I don't like their cabs.

The Ampeg 8x10 is a really inefficient design. It was just easy to build and combined with the SVT head Ampeg just happened to come across a great combination.

The Classic 8x10 only goes down to 58Hz. So despite the massive look of it it can't do as much low end as my Barefaced One10 that goes down to 30Hz. Obviously the 8x10 has far more drivers in it. But the lack of speaker excursion means that it can't shift 8 times more air.

The Barefaced 4x10 is louder than the Ampeg 8x10 at 1 metre and goes lower. The Barefaced Big Twin 2 (2x12 with a HF horn) is louder again and goes as low as the 4x10. The BT2 is voiced a bit differently though. It's a flatter response than the Four10. The Four10 is a more vintage tone.

The newly announced GR Bass AeroTech range look to be even lighter still and their 1 metre db level is claimed to be on a par with Barefaced. They are really new though so I haven't had a chance to get hold of one.

Can't wait to try them though!

Revolting1 · June 2020

It should fit,but take some rope as insurance.

it may be interesting for your back.

A good roadie is hard to beat.

UnclePsychosis · June 2020

Sorry, for a hilarious second there I thought you said that you'd bought TWO 8x10 cabs.

mike257 · July 2020

As a touring tech and previously a working bassist, the only time I've taken my Ampeg 610 out of storage in the last seven years has been for video shoots - make of that what you will.

When I'm mixing small club shows, if I get a bassist with an 810 and they insist on running it at a level that gives them that lovely trouser flap on stage, it almost always results in me having to mute the bass in the PA entirely, and to still have too much of it in the room, swamping the mix beyond my control.

When I'm mixing festivals and arena shows, they're no bother, but at that point you're guaranteed a certain quality of stage monitoring that makes a loud backline largely unnecessary, the backline is far enough removed from the FOH system that it's not an issue for the mix, and the players are on in ear monitors more often than not - not to mention the fact that you've got crew moving it and it'll be in appropriate transport.

There's no situation where that size of cab is necessary these days, and in most situations it's actually a hindrance to good overall sound. By the time you reach the point where it's not a pain in the arse, it's usually someone else's problem to carry the thing around!

mike257 · July 2020

Sorry, just realised how thoroughly unhelpful that was.

If you are going to hoof it around in the boot, I'd recommend getting a bit of carpet or even a big sheet of cardboard that you can put across the boot threshold when you're sliding the cab in, or you'll end up putting some heavy relicing on both the cab and the car!

fretmeister · July 2020

mike257 said:

Sorry, just realised how thoroughly unhelpful that was.

If you are going to hoof it around in the boot, I'd recommend getting a bit of carpet or even a big sheet of cardboard that you can put across the boot threshold when you're sliding the cab in, or you'll end up putting some heavy relicing on both the cab and the car!

I do wish more cab makers would include slide rails on the backs of the cabs. The additional weight is tiny and it really protects the backs.

ICBM · July 2020

mike257 said:

Sorry, just realised how thoroughly unhelpful that was.

It wasn't unhelpful at all, it was spot on.

8x10"s are great on huge outdoor stages where professional carriers-of-really-big-heavy-awkward-things are employed, and you do not have to own, move or store the thing yourself.

That's it.

fretmeister · July 2020

Most 8x10 are really beamy with their sound too. Quiet and muffled off centre, deafening in front.

Great sound with the right amp of course - but these days - get a Barefaced One10 or Two10 and mic it up. The 10 series Barefaced cabs were designed to sound like the old Ampegs but with far better lateral dispersion.

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8x10 cab transport question

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