Another "which new DAW" question / workflow based

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Hope all are well.  Looking to tap into the collective knowledge here.

Recently switched from an aged Mac to Win 10 and just bought  new interface.  Historically have done multitracking, song based recording.  But now am less band / song focused.

Most of my enjoyment comes from noodling in alt tunings and building up progressions based on this so I was wondering about building a DAW/workflow around this.  Usually i would pass my stuff onto someone else for melody / lyrics / structure, but I am wondering if technology could help me with this next level.

So the ability to record 15 minutes of noodling.
Being able to edit this down into segments.
Building drums and synth melodies over this.  Drums played live from a Roland kit.  Or all from a built in synth / sequencer.
The ability to flexibly arrange the result.

I was thinking along the lines of something of Ableton.  I did download this for the mac, but a combination of it being a bit alien, and too much for the mid 2009 macbook (despite it being pimmped with SSD and RAM) didn't really inspire.

What say you?  Ableton or another?


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Comments

  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited June 2020
    Tried Reaper?

    Otherwise Studio One, Nuendo/Cubase.
    You may want to consider an updated computer if you intend on running a lot of VI's.
    An 11 year old computer will cope with a fair amount of audio but modern VI's are very processor and RAM intensive.
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  • lysanderlysander Frets: 574
    I would recommend studio one - probably the simplest workflow for recording and overdubbing real instruments.
    If you want to go heavily into loops,
    look into ableton live, but it’s less intuitive and more suited to midi than audio.
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  • Bill_SBill_S Frets: 103
    I do a fair amount of what you describe in Studio One pro. Been my DAW of choice for a few years. Very solid, and intuitive 
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  • Ableton isn't really a guitarist friendly DAW tbh. It'll take some noodling sure, but if you want to comp stuff together or do any serious editing, it really isn't too great at that.

    I'd suggest Studio One. There is a free version you can try out, and then they have various tiers of entry. But it's a very easy DAW to use and very user friendly.

    Reaper is a madman. It can do anything to do with audio that you would ever want to do, but it's quite tricky to get your head around and is so customizeable that you'll waste half your life doing that side of things. So I'd suggest other hosts before that one.

    Bye!

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  • digitalkettledigitalkettle Frets: 3124
    lysander said:
    I would recommend studio one - probably the simplest workflow for recording and overdubbing real instruments.
    If you want to go heavily into loops,
    look into ableton live, but it’s less intuitive and more suited to midi than audio.
    Ableton is the only DAW I've known since getting a 'lite' version with my first ever interface.

    For the OP, there are two sides to Ableton (toggled via the tab key):
    • Arrangement view - the traditional 'recording straight into tracks' approach
    • Session view - you're still looking at the same tracks but this view is geared towards recording 'clips' (which can be looped...and everything, regardless of length, plays nicely). You can build up different versions of clips on each of your tracks (one-click...next take...no stopping) and execute them manually in any order you like or compose them into scenes. A very effective workflow for developing ideas. You can leave it there if you like or you can drag clips into the Arrangement view...or you can hit record and 'play' your clips/scenes into the Arrangement view
    Almost everything I do is audio (very little MIDI)...and I don't do much building of loops. I'm probably not a typical user...but that might be a good thing. Sometimes I go straight into Arrangement view and maybe switch back & forth, just treating the Session view as a mixing console.

    There's a lot of detail but you ignore what you don't need (until you need it). I found it to be pretty intuitive...it can't be that much harder than something like Logic, can it? I don't even know if it's prohibitively expensive to get into these days as I'm in the upgrade loop.
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    Thumbs up here for Studio One...


    Mac Mini M1
    Presonus Studio One V5
     https://www.studiowear.co.uk/ -
     https://twitter.com/spark240
     Facebook - m.me/studiowear.co.uk
    Reddit r/newmusicreview 
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  • lincolnbluelincolnblue Frets: 294
    I've just been looking at studio one. I've used reaper in the past but studio one does look good and the Artist version is on sale at £60!

    Can you use other virtual instruments in the Artist version or only the pro? 

    Any particular things that Artist doesn't have that would persuade me to buy the professional or is it perfectly fine as is?
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Reaper is free to try, for as long as you like. And it does everything well.
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  • Thanks for entertaining the "yet another" DAW question.  The knowledge on here is amazing.

    I downloaded both Reaper and Ableton to give both a try, one evening each, and I have found Reaper has got me furthest and enjoying it the most.

    I have managed to get a decent bass plugin and a drum sample / setup loaded (there seems to be loads of accessible freebies and people willing to share online).  Needless to say I don't quite understand how it all works plumbing wise, so without the ability to go an download a zip containing project templates and wav files, that all just plugged in, might very well have just given up.


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  • Bill_SBill_S Frets: 103
    I've just been looking at studio one. I've used reaper in the past but studio one does look good and the Artist version is on sale at £60!

    Can you use other virtual instruments in the Artist version or only the pro? 

    Any particular things that Artist doesn't have that would persuade me to buy the professional or is it perfectly fine as is?
    Unfortunately VST is an add on for the Artist version, which costs an additional £79! If you can go for Pro, you’ll never regret it. 
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  • DodgeDodge Frets: 1430
    Waveform and Cakewalk are both very fully featured and also completely free.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Thanks for entertaining the "yet another" DAW question.  The knowledge on here is amazing.

    I downloaded both Reaper and Ableton to give both a try, one evening each, and I have found Reaper has got me furthest and enjoying it the most.

    I have managed to get a decent bass plugin and a drum sample / setup loaded (there seems to be loads of accessible freebies and people willing to share online).  Needless to say I don't quite understand how it all works plumbing wise, so without the ability to go an download a zip containing project templates and wav files, that all just plugged in, might very well have just given up.


    First step is always the hardest, with Reaper, it helps to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve-as a first step.
    When you have got that process working, save it as a project template called first step.
    When that project evolves into step 2, save it as another project-called, you guessed it--step 2.
    And so on.
    There are plenty of pre made templates on the reaper forum, but it is easier to understand if you built it.
    You can always look at track wiring view-to see how stuff is routed visually, but i struggle to get a single screen view, and personally I'd like to be able to print a hard copy.
    Kenny's youtube has a clear video explaining what each and everything does in Reaper, which is why I prefer it as a DAW over everything else, he is the expert, and if you get past his delivery, he is an absolute goldmine of information.
    Other DAWs seem to rely on a manual, or a random demonstration on youtube search.
    The time you put into any DAW is an investment, on top of the expense, but when you are forced to pay for upgrades to open up features-which is designed to lock you in, if you can afford that - no problem, but no other DAW is as flexible and adaptable as Reaper.
    If you just want a simple, single track recording-it is a template.
    If you want a complex multi-track mix, it is a template.
    If you insist on it looking like Pro-tools, it is a theme and a template.
    If you only want to edit audio, or midi, it is a screenset, or a template, or another monitor.
    It goes on and on forever, so as your experience grows, your list of needs grows, and your template folder grows.
    You can always go back to step 1 and take it in another direction.
    Even the concept of tracks has been maximized in Reaper, there is only one type-which can itself hold up to 64 tracks of audio or midi, it is truly mindblowing.

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  • Bill_SBill_S Frets: 103
    Bill_S said:
    I've just been looking at studio one. I've used reaper in the past but studio one does look good and the Artist version is on sale at £60!

    Can you use other virtual instruments in the Artist version or only the pro? 

    Any particular things that Artist doesn't have that would persuade me to buy the professional or is it perfectly fine as is?
    Unfortunately VST is an add on for the Artist version, which costs an additional £79! If you can go for Pro, you’ll never regret it. 
    @lincolnblue VST support has been added for Studio One Artist Version 5, launched today
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    I use Cubase - there are different flavours but Cubase Elements is a good place to start. You can try it free for a month. Checkout this tutorial which shows some features useful to creating a track.





    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • lincolnbluelincolnblue Frets: 294
    Bill_S said:
    Bill_S said:
    I've just been looking at studio one. I've used reaper in the past but studio one does look good and the Artist version is on sale at £60!

    Can you use other virtual instruments in the Artist version or only the pro? 

    Any particular things that Artist doesn't have that would persuade me to buy the professional or is it perfectly fine as is?
    Unfortunately VST is an add on for the Artist version, which costs an additional £79! If you can go for Pro, you’ll never regret it. 
    @lincolnblue VST support has been added for Studio One Artist Version 5, launched today
    Ah brilliant! Thanks - I had an email to say that because I bought Version 4 just a week or so ago I can upgrade to version 5 for free so that's ace. 
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  • FarleyUKFarleyUK Frets: 2377
    Bill_S said:
    Bill_S said:
    I've just been looking at studio one. I've used reaper in the past but studio one does look good and the Artist version is on sale at £60!

    Can you use other virtual instruments in the Artist version or only the pro? 

    Any particular things that Artist doesn't have that would persuade me to buy the professional or is it perfectly fine as is?
    Unfortunately VST is an add on for the Artist version, which costs an additional £79! If you can go for Pro, you’ll never regret it. 
    @lincolnblue VST support has been added for Studio One Artist Version 5, launched today
    Thanks for the heads-up - you can upgrade to v5 from previous artist versions for £42.

    I'll have some of that!
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    How can you have a DAW that doesn't support VSTs? Does this mean you can't use a VST in it? That seems utterly pointless.
    Especially when you can get full loaded DAWs like Cakewalk, that will do whatever you like, for free.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    edited July 2020


    There's a lot of detail but you ignore what you don't need (until you need it). I found it to be pretty intuitive...it can't be that much harder than something like Logic, can it? I don't even know if it's prohibitively expensive to get into these days as I'm in the upgrade loop.

    Logic is a lot more sensibly priced these days £199 new.

    Take a look at Waveform Free if you're still at the dabbling stage -> https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveform-free

    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • Bill_SBill_S Frets: 103
    Snap said:
    How can you have a DAW that doesn't support VSTs? Does this mean you can't use a VST in it? That seems utterly pointless.
    Especially when you can get full loaded DAWs like Cakewalk, that will do whatever you like, for free.
    You pay your money (unless it’s free of course)and make a choice. For me, Studio One Pro is worth every penny. I used Cakewalk’s Sonar for 10 years, and have the free fully featured version now, but never use it. 
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  • digitalkettledigitalkettle Frets: 3124
    Jalapeno said:


    There's a lot of detail but you ignore what you don't need (until you need it). I found it to be pretty intuitive...it can't be that much harder than something like Logic, can it? I don't even know if it's prohibitively expensive to get into these days as I'm in the upgrade loop.

    Logic is a lot more sensibly priced these days £199 new.

    Take a look at Waveform Free if you're still at the dabbling stage -> https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveform-free

    Not dabbling...dyed-in-the-wool Abletonian since Live 4 ;)

    I meant that I don't know how expensive it is to get started with Ableton since I'm tied into its upgrade loop.
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