Well-known songs that use Modes

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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Danny1969 said:
    I personally don't see any harm to see'ing any mode as a customization of a major or minor scale ... it might not be right to think of it like that but it's perfectly valid.  

    To learn the intervals that produce these sounds it's far easier to view it from a keyboard rather than a fretboard. All the intervals are right there in front of you .... just start from C to C for the first mode (ionian - major scale) and note the intervals ... then start from D through to D (Dorian mode) and note the intervals ...then start from E through to E and note the intervals that produce the third mode etc

    I think I'm probably not thinking it right myself and there's probably something wrong with the above but it's enabled me to produce modal sounds in all keys. 

    Has to be said though .... half the modes seem to me to be  of limited use playing typical western music .....at the moment I use knowledge of what notes are in the underlying chords to spice up my solo's but I'm sure there's a secret to using the modes here ? 
    Your method is spot on for creating them, and agreed, the piano is the ultimate tool because it’s a audiovisual model of our key system. 

    The other way is completely to ignore the incremental relationship between the modes and just think of them as deviations from the standard major and minor. 

    Yep, as you can see from the songs list, lydian and locrian are pretty rare. Even ionian is pretty rare if you’re a blues rocker. 

    I’d say mixolydian and dorian are the commonest in bluesy rock, and they both share the same notes in the upper part of the scale, so I’d almost be tempted to call them rock major and rock minor!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647

    Funnily enough after the excellent info above came out,  this popped up on Instagram 


    Nice. Interestingly there’s hardly any music “in harmonic minor”, where harmonic minor is used as the notes over the root chord. Those notes are almost exclusively used over the V chord, as the phryg dom scale, like Octa said. Yngwie is often quoted as playing harmonic minor, but in actual fact he almost always snaps back to Aeolian once he comes off the V chord. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • PhiltrePhiltre Frets: 4164
    viz said:

    Lydian

    Flying in a Blue Dream - Joe Satriani

    Giant Balls of Gold - Steve Vai

    Every Frank Zappa guitar solo.

    (OK, Dorian as well)

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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    viz said:


    ...I’d say mixolydian and dorian are the commonest in bluesy rock, and they both share the same notes in the upper part of the scale, so I’d almost be tempted to call them rock major and rock minor!

    When playing a blues in a major key, my general scale is the major pentatonic overlaid on top of the minor pentatonic, which can be thought of as the Dorian with an added major 3rd (or the Mixolydian with an added minor 3rd). Then I select notes to fit with the chords. It's kind of how I think of Clapton's classic solo to Crossroads.

    One can also add the major 7 to that scale over the V7 chord because the major 7 of that scale is the major 3rd of the V7 chord. Although I tend to think of it as part of an arpeggio of the V7 chord.

    It's not a competition.
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    Modal Harmony can be a bit more complex, if you want to avoid sounding like it's in a major key.

    "The problem with the tritone in modal harmony is not so much the interval itself but the placement of that interval in a voicing in 3rds. Voicings in 3rds (triads and 7th chords) are so identified with the major and minor modes that their very use promotes tonal rather than modal identity."

    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • DulcetJonesDulcetJones Frets: 515
    I delved into modes several years ago and I get the theory and all but I came to the conclusion that the farther down the list you go the less "musical" they get.  I use ionian and dorian but, I think the breakdown list Viz(nicely done BTW!) has laid out reflects this imo.   As time marches on we might be surprised by some new composers though, you never know.

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited July 2020
    Ta

    ... and some old composers. Aeolian and Dorian and their hypos are well medieval. But yep, I hope you’re right!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • UnclePsychosisUnclePsychosis Frets: 12881
    Definitely think people overthink the modes. 

    1. They're just scales
    2. Tutorials always dive in too deep. The only modes that are worth worrying about for beginners are Dorian and Mixolydian.

    (and Ionian and Aeolian---but its significantly less confusing for beginners to think of these as just Major and Minor scales so beginners should pretend they aren't modes IMO) 
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  • TforTeleTforTele Frets: 33
    viz said:

    Phrygian


    Modern Times - New Model Army

    War - Joe Satriani

    Remember Tomorrow - Iron Maiden

    For the Love of God - Steve Vai

    Dylan’s One More Cup of Coffee?
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited July 2020
    TforTele said:
    viz said:

    Phrygian


    Modern Times - New Model Army

    War - Joe Satriani

    Remember Tomorrow - Iron Maiden

    For the Love of God - Steve Vai

    Dylan’s One More Cup of Coffee?
    Nope - that’s just minor. Maybe the fact that his first sung note is an E which then goes up a semitone to F might be lulling you into a false sense that that’s the b2, but actually it’s just a b6, as the song is in A minor. Maybe?

    The killer fact early on before the singing even starts is that the 2nd chord - the bVII - is a G not a G minor, which it would have to be if the song were in A Phrygian. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • WoodenheadWoodenhead Frets: 123
    edited July 2020
    viz said:

    Phrygian


    Modern Times - New Model Army

    War - Joe Satriani

    Remember Tomorrow - Iron Maiden

    For the Love of God - Steve Vai


    Metallica - Harvester of Sorrow
    Iron Maiden - Powerslave

    Are they Phrygian or Phrygian Dominant? I'm not clued up on modes.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited July 2020
    viz said:

    Phrygian


    Modern Times - New Model Army

    War - Joe Satriani

    Remember Tomorrow - Iron Maiden

    For the Love of God - Steve Vai


    Metallica - Harvester of Sorrow
    Iron Maiden - Powerslave

    Are they Phrygian or Phrygian Dominant? I'm not clued up on modes.


    Re Harvester of Sorrow, I thought you meant Rachmaninov's song (which is Aeolian ). Yep, phrygian. Ooh and it's got a locrian section in the middle!

    Powerslave's also a good call, coz although it's a mixture of both, it makes more sense to call it phrygian than phrygian dominant because the A chord is the tonic not the dominant. So that's going up there too

    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • WoodenheadWoodenhead Frets: 123
    Am I right in thinking Phrygian is made up of semi and full-tones where as Phrygian Dominant has a 1-1/2 interval? I've tried to get my head around this stuff before but seem to forget it just as quick.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited July 2020
    Yes. Starting from the bottom string of your guitar, phrygian is E F G A B C D E, whereas phrygian dominant is E F G# A B C D E. 

    If s is a semitone and T is a tone, then phrygian is s T T T s T T, whereas phrygian dominant is s 1.5 s T s T T.

    The first set of notes is most often played as:

    a) chord i in E Phrygian, or
    b) chord iii in C major, or
    c) chord v in A minor. 

    The second set of notes is most often played as chord V in A minor. 

    So in A minor, depending on how you like your V (or v) chord, that will dictate whether you play E phrygian or E phrygian dominant over it. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    edited July 2020
    Dorian

    Miles Davis - So What

    Santana - Oye Como Va

    Phrygian

    Metallica  - Wherever I May Roam is heavily phrygian

    Lydian

    Steve Vai - The Riddle is about as lydian as you'll get with that huge #4 at the start

    Police - Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic

    Phrygian and Lydian

    Joe Satriani - Time

    Aeolian

    Radiohead - Street Spirit


     


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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Brad said:
    Dorian

    Miles Davis - So What

    Santana - Oye Como Va

    Phrygian

    Metallica  - Wherever I May Roam is heavily phrygian

    Lydian

    Steve Vai - The Riddle is about as lydian as you'll get with that huge #4 at the start

    Police - Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic

    Phrygian and Lydian

    Joe Satriani - Time

    Aeolian

    Radiohead - Street Spirit


     



    Awse. 

    I’m going to put Time in Lydian as that’s the key centre for the song, despite the modulations in the middle. 

    For the Police one I think I’ll leave that out because that very Lydianish intro turns out to have all been starting from the IV chord anyway. 

    Thanks!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    I wonder how many of the song writers knew what modes they were "using" when they wrote these songs?
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    I wonder how many of the song writers knew what modes they were "using" when they wrote these songs?
    Probably all those whose first name is either Steve or Joe. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
     :) 
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    I wonder how many of the song writers knew what modes they were "using" when they wrote these songs?

    The Police knew their stuff, Andy Summer is very knowledgeable about theory. Many of the Police and Sting songs use modes in very interesting ways. Based on listening to a few Radiohead songs, they seem to know alot about using them too.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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