I can't get my head around 7/4 timing

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axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
I decided to bash out some chords on the piano last night and play along to a bunch of songs. Always fun.

I stuck up the chords to Pink Floyd's Money, but it completely threw me, I couldn't get in time with it at all! I'm a total dunce with theory, how does one get the feel for a 7/4 rhythm. I thought it might come to me if I faffed around with it for a while but nope, it just wasn't happening.

Confused of Luton.


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Comments

  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited December 2020
    Count it as 1234,123 (or sometimes 123,1234 can work).
    Tap your foot.
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    When you get the 7, shout "NO FUCKING 8 FOR YOU!" and go back to 1.

    Eventually, you can internalise this hatred and then it becomes second nature.
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  • WhistlerWhistler Frets: 322
    For Pink Floyd's Money I would suggest counting 12345 12 or 12 123 12
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    Seven is a very good time (Se-ven is a very good time - 1-2,3,4,5,6,7)
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 6595
    edited December 2020
    Gina Lollobrigida makes my heart beat in seven.

    Although 7/8 rather than 7/4
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  • jhumberjhumber Frets: 238
    Similar to the above, breaking 7 into 4+3 often helps.

    In the specific case of Money, can you hum the riff / rhythm without a guitar in your hands? If you can walk around the house with it in your head, there’s a much higher chance it’ll come out your hands when it comes to playing. (I’ve consistently used the phrase “if you can’t hum it, you’re unlikely to be able to play it” in lessons over the years).
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    I’d count 12 12 123 for Money
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • octatonic said:
    Count it as 1234,123 (or sometimes 123,1234 can work).
    Tap your foot.
    This. Count it in your head and tap your foot at the same time. Try this first without playing, just so that you can hear where the bars and accents are.  
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  • JotaJota Frets: 463
    The verse on this song is probably the easiest I know in 7/4. If you simplify the drum part it's pretty easy to get into it.



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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4027
    Sometimes use a one syllable "sev" 
    For some reason Foos, Times like These" was always this.
    Oh, and the end of Biffy Clyro, Bubbles
    More usually count it into 4 and 3 or 3 and 4 as others have said.


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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    edited December 2020
    In my head, Money goes...

    ONE 2 3 FOUR 5 6 7 for the "money, get away" bits. The bass dictates the emphasis. But it's not all in 7/4. The "new car, caviar" bit, for instance... That's (Edit: two) bars of 4/4 followed by a bar of 6/4. 


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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5594
    I know it's wrong, but when I listen to Money, mentally I split the 7/4 timing into one bar of 4/4 and one bar of 3/4.

    In a round about way I thus count it 1-2-3-4 1-2-3

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Haych said:
    I know it's wrong, but when I listen to Money, mentally I split the 7/4 timing into one bar of 4/4 and one bar of 3/4.

    In a round about way I thus count it 1-2-3-4 1-2-3
    It is a perfectly valid way to count.
    FWIW many drummers break everything down to groups of 2's and 3's.

    There is a system borrowed from Indian music where you could groups of two as 'Taka' and groups of three as 'Takata'
    Say them out loud- Taka is two beats, Takata is three beats.
    So you could in theory make any odd time by just adding a 'Takata' to any number of Taka's.

    5/4: Taka-Takata
    7/4: Taka-Taka-Takata
    9/8: Taka-Taka-Taka-Takata

    and so on.

    Also check out the Takadimi system, also borrowed from Indian classic music for teaching rhythms to children.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takadimi
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16006
    It's a boring song anyway
    so,I'd move onto something else and not worry about it !
    solved.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    edited January 2021
    I think the only weird thing about 7/4 and 5/4 is that it reverses the polarity if you're head banging. 
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • jdgmjdgm Frets: 850
    "Great Expectations" - Miles Davis

    Count the bass as 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 and you'll get it




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  • JotaJota Frets: 463
    jdgm said:
    "Great Expectations" - Miles Davis

    Count the bass as 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 and you'll get it





    Wow!
    I had never seen that cover. Ever. and I had my Jazz phase. 
    Today it's the second time I see it on different locations! 
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  • I find that learning things like this by ear and just motoring through works.  Take a look at the guitar riff in the Foo Fighters song "Times Like These" that starts about 10 seconds in.  If learning by ear is too difficult memorize from tab, whatever you have to do then just play along with it.  A few minutes of doing that and it starts feeling comfortable.  I learned the 7/4 bass intro to "Money" by ear before I found out it was in 7/4 and didn't find out(or figure out) that it was in 7/4 until someone told me.  I am an avid note reader with grade 5 RCM in classical guitar but I played by ear for several years before I opened a theory text.

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • I think the only weird thing about 7/4 and 5/4 is that it reverses the polarity if you're head banging. 
    There's a great video of Harry Connick Jr casually throwing in a bar of five to get an audience clapping on 2 and 4 instead of the just-plain-wrong 1 and 3. 

    About 40s in here:


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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Love the bassist's celebration :)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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