Effective practice . . . . . . some advice please

ChrisMusic · August 2013

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/493/jmaster">jmaster</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><p style="line-height: normal;">What has made a big difference to my outlook on learning the guitar, or any instrument, is watching these videos of the incredible Victor Wooten ...<br></p></div> </blockquote> <div><div>Hey Will, glad you are on "board", loving the Greco, thanks for that.</div><div><br></div><div>@jmaster - what can I say? … great stuff …</div><div><br></div><div>I could hardly follow what was being said in the first video.</div><div>The incredible Victor Wooten's playing is just amazing, ALL my attention was just on listening to him play. WOW</div><div>I had to watch it all over again, no hardship tho

</div><div><br></div><div>It's a whole different approach, and takes a bit of getting your head around, but I am already incorporating some aspects into my life.</div><div>He presents his ideas so very well too, that sense of calm belief just draws you straight in. That pair of videos really is a gift.</div><div><br></div><div>The whole "less is more" thing on Hess's video makes a very valid point too.</div><div>A timely reminder of what music is about, as opposed to ego.</div><div><br></div><div>I knew you would have a valuable contribution to make to this discussion, thank you for sharing.</div><div>And again good luck at ICMP

</div></div>

Clarky · August 2013

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/39/mike_l">mike_l</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><p>As I have limited time this week (probably about 1 hour/day) I shall do</p><p>15 mins scales/warm up (Ie finger gym + scales in one)</p><p>10 mins chords/arpeggios</p><p>10 mins on random exercises from a (random) book (I have loads) different each day</p><p>25-30 mins jamming with a backing track</p><p> </p><p>And getting to Jam nights to play with others.</p><p> </p><p>Next week (probably 2 hours/day to practise)</p><p>15 mins scales/warm up (again finger gym + scales in one)</p><p>15 mins chords/arpeggios</p><p>30 mins working through a book (actually working through, not just random exercises)</p><p>30-45 mins jamming with backing tracks</p><p>15-30 mins of revision of stuff I know</p><p> </p><p> </p></div> </blockquote> one thing I don't see in here is "learning songs"<div>repertoire is most likely the largest single enabler when it comes to music..</div><div>and you can apply all of your practice items to it..</div><div><br></div><div>1 - learn and analyse the song's structure, keys, progressions, note chord voicing / inversion, melodies etc..</div><div>all this works on your theory..</div><div><br></div><div>2 - learning to play it, all the progressions / riffs / solos / bass lines / melodies [including vocal and other instruments] it good for technique.. it also develops your aural perception</div><div><br></div><div>3 - totally nailing your guitar part is good for technique [playing along with it] cos you're playing along with something that is in time [and natural]</div><div><br></div><div>4 - nailing the tones teaches you to listen and explore your rig / fx / pup choices</div><div><br></div><div>5 - use the song as a backing track and solo across the whole thing [works on improvisation and experimentation]</div><div><br></div><div>6 - finally, using everything you've squeezed out of the song... experiment with parts of it that you find particularly interesting and use this to write one of your own - maybe using a moment like a part of a progression / riff / melody / bass line etc..</div><div>take it your own way and flex some creative muscle..</div><div><br></div><div>sure spend time learning scales / chords / techniques etc...</div><div>but don't you think they can say so much more to you in an applied setting???</div>

mike_l · August 2013

<p>@Clarky</p><p>I was using the "jamming with backing tracks" part to cover learning songs too. Probably badly explained by me.</p><p>I should also have included some theory in the suggestions too. Probably 5 minutes/day on a short session week, and 10-15 on a long session week.</p>

mike_l · August 2013

<p>@ChrisMusic</p><p>also, and I forgot</p><p>As Octatonic said earlier keep a record of what you have and haven't covered.</p><p>IE, if you don't cover chords/arpeggios one night, note it down, and make sure you do it the next. Also don't give more than the allotted time to each section. </p><p>I deliberately put the jamming with backing tracks at the end, as that is the fun part, do the hard work first, then have fun...</p>

mike_l · August 2013

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/98/ChrisMusic">ChrisMusic</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor">I haven't any books at all, but I have a few DVDs from Lick library on technique and modes, they seem pretty good. Backing tracks wise nothing at all, but I do have a looper on the shopping list. I know that will make a world of difference.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I really need to find out if any Jam Nights go on anywhere around here (how?).</div><div>If I can get over the inevitable stage fright, I really think the interaction will be a real benefit.</div></div> </blockquote><p> </p><p>First, find a book (there's loads around) which is directed at the style of music you want to play. There's no point in getting a book directed at heavy metal, when you want to play blues. Get one with an accompanying CD, so you can hear what the piece/exercise is supposed to sound like. As Clarky said also learn songs, as many as you can.</p><p> </p><p>To find a jam night near you (I'm lucky in the Cambridge Cartel are pretty good and have a few), ask in your local musicians shop, ask the question on here, ask a local teacher etc., Jam nights are also good for "networking" with other musicians. IE, you will meet and get to know some good people, who will help you out (In my case @Viz, @Bigjon from here, and a few others not on here).</p><p> </p><p>And give yourself a reward for working hard. By this I mean, 1 months hard graft (at guitar) = 1 FX pedal (for example) 6 months = guitar, so not only are you working towards being a better guitarist & musician you'll get something physical in return.<br></p>

Clarky · August 2013

<BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote> <DIV class=QuoteAuthor><A href="/profile/39/mike_l">mike_l</A> said:</DIV> <DIV class=QuoteText> <P>@Clarky</P> <P>I was using the "jamming with backing tracks" part to cover learning songs too. Probably badly explained by me.</P> <P>I should also have included some theory in the suggestions too. Probably 5 minutes/day on a short session week, and 10-15 on a long session week.</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>gotchya...</P> <P>personally, when I'm having a "learn stuff" practice session<BR>I put the song / piece / solo / etc I'm learning at the centre of it<BR>and then I work all the threory and technique stuff around and into it..</P> <P>but always... <BR>make sure that creative muscle is being flexed..</P>

viz · August 2013

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/39/mike_l">mike_l</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"> </div></blockquote><p>First find a book (there's loads around) which is directed at the style of music you want to play. There's no point in getting a book directed at heavy metal, when you want to play blues</p></div> </blockquote> Yes there is!!

<br>

mike_l · August 2013

<BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote> <DIV class=QuoteAuthor><A href="/profile/44/viz">viz</A> said:</DIV> <DIV class=QuoteText> <BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote> <DIV class=QuoteAuthor><A href="/profile/39/mike_l">mike_l</A> said:</DIV> <DIV class=QuoteText> <BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote> <DIV class=QuoteAuthor> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>First find a book (there's loads around) which is directed at the style of music you want to play. There's no point in getting a book directed at heavy metal, when you want to play blues</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes there is!!

<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not if you're a complete novice

mike_l · August 2013

<BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote> <DIV class=QuoteAuthor><A href="/profile/98/ChrisMusic">ChrisMusic</A> said:</DIV> <DIV class=QuoteText> <BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote>I really need to find out if any Jam Nights go on anywhere around here (how?).</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If I can get over the inevitable stage fright, I really think the interaction will be a real benefit.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Best is to not give too much of a fuck if you make a mistake, and carry on playing

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Just looking through this discussion again.<div>Looking for a bit more inspiration on a rainy day, as you do.<div><br></div><div>Thanks to everyone who has contributed, it is very much appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>I've missed out a couple of thank you's to @mike_l and @Clarky for continued good input, so that's official, thanks chaps.

<br><div><br></div><blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/115/steamabacus">steamabacus</a> said: I feel that becoming a good player is a case of learning to highlight your strengths and disguise your weaknesses. <b>Playing music isn't really about 'not making mistakes' (although it helps to play it right). It's how you <i>react</i> to your mistakes that matter.</b> Great players still make mistakes but they're pretty adept at bluffing their way out of it. Most in the audience wouldn't recognise a mistake if it slapped them in the face with a wet fish, anyway - but they DO recognise someone on stage getting all embarrassed and self-conscious because they've gone wrong.</div> </blockquote> Sage advice @<a href="/profile/115/steamabacus">steamabacus</a>, if I finally make it back on stage again (god, that was so long ago), I will treasure those words.</div><div>If not, they will still put me in good stead.</div><div>Well put. That is oh so true.</div>

</div>

Maxi · November 2013

<a href="/profile/185/Catthan" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0470588); font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;">Catthan</a><span style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0470588); font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;"> said:</span><br><blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteText"><div><br><div>I think I also mentioned it somewhere else but there has been scientific research showing that musicians can practice effectively without even playing and this helps the brain built the right neural paths etc. It's a bit like positive imagery or "visualization" and you basically focus your brain and imagine you're a practicing smth, with all the details, notes, dynamics. Theoretically, if it's focused and detailed, the brain is exercised as if you were actually playing. Of course it needs to be done in conjunction to actual playing so that the ears, the brain and fingers know what's happening. then you can brain-practice a bit before sleeping.</div></div><div><br></div><div>I'm not a native English speaker so I can't explain well but here it is from Justin</div><div><a href="

">

here from Chris Brooks (Australian shredder)</div><div><a href="

">

a nice read about musicians' brain function and a section about mental practice</div><div><a href="http://madisonjazz.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/practicingandcurrentbrainresearchbygebrian.pdf">http://madisonjazz</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 22.65625px;">Brgrds,</span><br></div></div></blockquote>This kind of method is something im sure we find our selves doing with many other things but because its so easy and tactile to just pick up a guitar, guitar playing & development probably doesnt get much of a look in .<div>I cant say Ive just sat there and really tried it , I probably should ...I'll be the first to admit that I lay awake at night sometimes visualizing my component layout when stuck on my latest pedal build I guess its the same sort of thing , or thinking about that patio I need to sort out <br><br></div> :-?

ChrisMusic · December 2014

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;">And as a Phoenix rising from the ashes*...</span></font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">There is some great advice and food for thought in this discussion, it would be a shame to let it slide into oblivion, and I also have a few bits to add.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">You know, I wish I had done more, and practiced more since starting this, but things are coming along very nicely, thanks for asking.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">I used to play pretty well, back in my "past life", so I was told, but that was many, many moons <span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">(years)</span> ago.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">So two years ago I picked up a guitar again* and had to be shown how to play a D chord all over again, a little embarrassing to say the least. <span style="font-size: 10pt;">I was almost starting to play from square one. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">That really was a frightening realisation about how much you can loose. <span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">(long story)</span></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">Lots of progress since though, and what a fantastic journey to have a guitar back in my hand, I am loving every minute of it.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">There is so much more help available now, including you good folk of theFretBoard, so thanks all...</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">NEW BIT:</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">Here is a short article on "Mental Practice".</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">There are also some interesting comments following on from it.</span></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal; color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/does-mental-practice-work/</span></font><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">@Catthan, do you know of any other source of the article you posted early on in this discussion ?</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">It <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">no longer seems to be available</span>, which is a pity, as it is well worth reading.</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153); font-size: small; font-family: Arial;">"and a nice read about musicians' brain function and a section about mental practice"</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(52, 73, 94); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://madisonjazz.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/practicingandcurrentbrainresearchbygebrian.pdf" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(41, 128, 185); -webkit-backface-visibility: hidden; font-size: small; font-family: Arial;">http://madisonjazz.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/practicingandcurrentbrainresearchbygebrian.pdf</a></div></div>;

GuyBoden · December 2014

<span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Use it or lose it.</span></span><br><br>Over the years, I've found that I only retain techniques that I frequently practice. <br><br>

ChrisMusic · February 2015

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;">~ SLOW ~</span></font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;">http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/is-slow-practice-really-necessary/</span></font><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">and there was a short discussion thread on it here</span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/30244/slow#latest</span><br></font></div>;

thomasross20 · February 2015

My practice was always largely focused on technical skills. I've a good ear as I listen to so much music. <div>Picking was always my weak point so this year I'm going to learn some tough alt picking tunes. </div><div>For fun I want to learn some more fingerstyle, so some Fleetwood Mac songs will fir that bill.</div><div>Doing my album and the band songs are also good practice. </div><div><br></div><div>I mainly use the major scale modes and am fine running up and down based on root on E string. Must get better if root is on A string (e.g. C major is played over G dorian shape down in the 3rd fret area). I also want to get better at playing with arpeggios. </div><div><br></div><div>I like creating new licks, as well, rather than playing the same old stuff. </div><div><br></div><div>If I can get fingerstyle down I'd love to write some fingerstyle + vox tracks. </div>

Phil_aka_Pip · February 2015

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/4378/thomasross20">thomasross20</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText"><br><div>I mainly use the major scale modes and am fine running up and down based on root on E string. Must get better if root is on A string (e.g. C major is played over G dorian shape down in the 3rd fret area). I also want to get better at playing with arpeggios. </div><div><br></div><br></div></blockquote>G Dorian is the 2nd mode of F major. C major (= F lydian) over it will give you a B on top of a Bb. I'm not saying don't do it, but is that what you intended?<br>

carlos · February 2015

face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;">5:12 in Shawn Lane messes up a line badly. Does that stop him? Hell no. Does anybody in the comments section mention it? I scrolled down and couldn't find a single comment.</span></font></div>

thomasross20 · February 2015

Woops, I meant play over the G mixolydian shape at 3rd fret in order to play C major

Phil_aka_Pip · February 2015

<blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/4378/thomasross20">thomasross20</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">Woops, I meant play over the G mixolydian shape at 3rd fret in order to play C major

</div> </blockquote> Ah, I see what you mean. I would normally cover that in my practice of C major, in that I do each of the 3-per-string patterns in the same key, so it would seem like playing F lydian, G mixolydian, A aeolian etc gradually moving up the fingerboard. Although I tend to think of it as playing C major everywhere. It may do me more good listening to the scales with respect to the lowest note on the E string rather than with respect to the C (wherever the C is played).<br>

thomasross20 · February 2015

Fair point! <div>It's just for when I'm at one part of the fretboard and the chord changes and I want to be able to play over that chord without rushing over to the chord's root note on the E string. I think if you can do it with reference to the E and A strings then you're ok... no need to go overboard and learn it for every one. </div><div>So in my head I remember (for example):</div><div><br></div><div>Ionian on E string is mixolydian on A string (or phyrgian/lydian if playing the C shape on the A string).</div><div>Dorian on E string is played over Aeolian on A string and so on. </div><div><br></div><div>I admit it's a lot of thought but something I need to get used to. I can see the arp shapes over these and am trying to fit it in. </div><div>Funnily enough I learned the modes before pentatonics so the modes are easier for me to remember. </div><div><br></div><div>I like not to think too much when playing... hence why jazz is outwith my playing realm lol...</div>

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Effective practice . . . . . . some advice please

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