Dongle help

jpfamps

We've got a very old in computer terms, ie mid 90s, flat bed engraving which is running on what would now be considered antique software.

The computer we were running the software on has expired and because we need to run the software on a machine that can run Windows 98 and has a parallel LPT port we are now running the machine on and old 98 laptop we had knocking about.

Unfortunately although the laptop is communicating with the engraver, the programme is running in "demo" mode which means we can't do any engraving. 

We are reliably informed that the problem is that the computer can't see the dongle that came with the software.

Does anyone with IT skills have any good ideas about how we can have a go rectifying this? 

Could the dongle have died?

Do we need a dongle driver to see the dongle?

Is there some software that can investigate the status of the dongle?

Any help would be appreciated.

jpfamps

I should add that the company that made the machine / wrote the software are no longer trading.

Sporky

That does sound like a dongle issue - my money is on the laptop not having a true hardware parallel port, and instead having one that's been implemented as a printer port. The dongles use the parallel port's hardware more directly. I have the same issue with my PCB routing software - on the upside, there's a new USB version available for only a moderately extortionate upgrade fee.

Not terribly helpful I'm afraid; is there another Win9 machine you could try?

Otherwise you could see if there's a version of the software out there that doesn't need the dongle (if you get my drift), or see if the machine can be controlled by other software - maybe Mach3?

strumjoughlamps

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

TTony

Those dongles were usually used as a form of anti-piracy protection.  I guess that's supported by the fact that the software now only runs in demo mode.

Is there any sort of software setting that you need to switch on to tell the software that you've inserted the dongle in port X, and to tell the software to look at port X to confirm presence of said dongle?

Back in the old days, you have to be quite specific about which port something had been plugged into - not like today's approach of plug it into any USB port and wait for the OS to notice, identify it, and then install the correct driver to use it.

jpfamps

TTony said:

Those dongles were usually used as a form of anti-piracy protection.  I guess that's supported by the fact that the software now only runs in demo mode.

Is there any sort of software setting that you need to switch on to tell the software that you've inserted the dongle in port X, and to tell the software to look at port X to confirm presence of said dongle?

Back in the old days, you have to be quite specific about which port something had been plugged into - not like today's approach of plug it into any USB port and wait for the OS to notice, identify it, and then install the correct driver to use it.

I suspect that the problem is something to do with the dongle driver.

Is there anything in the Windows 98 control panel to aid finding the dongle?

Sporky

strumjoughlamps said:

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

Extraordinarily unlikely to work - the dongles require interrupt level access to the hardware parallel port, whereas USB doohickies emulate a virtual printer port.

jpfamps

strumjoughlamps said:

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

Sporky said:

That does sound like a dongle issue - my money is on the laptop not having a true hardware parallel port, and instead having one that's been implemented as a printer port. The dongles use the parallel port's hardware more directly. I have the same issue with my PCB routing software - on the upside, there's a new USB version available for only a moderately extortionate upgrade fee.

Not terribly helpful I'm afraid; is there another Win9 machine you could try?

Otherwise you could see if there's a version of the software out there that doesn't need the dongle (if you get my drift), or see if the machine can be controlled by other software - maybe Mach3?

That's useful info re the port.

How would we diagnose whether the port is a proper hardware parallel port or a printer port.

The software is so old there isn't even a crack on the net (the software is called Wincisive by the way).

We are exploring using other software.

Sporky

jpfamps said:

How would we diagnose whether the port is a proper hardware parallel port or a printer port.

I don't know, but I'll see if I can find out.

A PCMCIA parallel port card (if you can find such a thing) ought to work. Worth a look on t'bay.

jpfamps

strumjoughlamps said:

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

We've tried that, with no success.

The problem is that software needs Windows 98 which you can't run natively on a modern lap top.

We were running a virtual machine in XP, but that machine expired. 

We have tried running 98 as a virtual machine on a modern computer with a USB / LPT adapter. We may revisit this though.

Sporky

If there's space in the workshop for the PCB machine, I'll have a surplus Win2k PC that definitely works with parallel port dongles. In a lovely shiny Lian Li case...

jpfamps

Is it possible that the USB to LPT port is a "printer only" converter and not a "hardware" port?

Sporky

Yes. Very likely. USB isn't real-time so doesn't meet the requirements of the dongle. Same as you can't run Mach3 to a CNC breakout board via a USB converter (apart from the UC100 which is a very different kettle of fish and still won't work with a dongle).

olafgarten

Just buy one of these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-MINI-COMPUTER-PC-FOR-WINDOWS-98-OLD-DOS-GAMES-800MHZ-2GB-SSD-RS-232-PARALLEL-/222383715368?hash=item33c71a3428:g:S8sAAOSw0fhXiTfo

jpfamps

olafgarten said:

Just buy one of these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-MINI-COMPUTER-PC-FOR-WINDOWS-98-OLD-DOS-GAMES-800MHZ-2GB-SSD-RS-232-PARALLEL-/222383715368?hash=item33c71a3428:g:S8sAAOSw0fhXiTfo

That looks a potentially good option too.

Thanks.

Jimbro66

jpfamps said:

I suspect that the problem is something to do with the dongle driver.

Is there anything in the Windows 98 control panel to aid finding the dongle?

I've not used Wincisive but the 1990s versions of AutoCAD that I used all required a hardware key (dongle) and I don't recall there being any access to the dongle in Control Panel. Dongle setup was in a drop-down menu on the AutoCAD screen  -  the 'Help' menu if I remember correctly. Is there nothing like that in Wincisive? A long shot might be looking in Device Manager if not already done?

As has already been said, the issue is likely to be either the dongle driver or the parallel port of that particular laptop. Are there any markings on the dongle to indicate manufacturer? They may still be in business even though the software is defunct. BTW the Italian company Venture SRL that handled Wincisive still has a Facebook presence but not updated for three years so presumably they failed soon after that.

Trying either a different Win9* pc, if you can find/borrow one, or even the German one suggested by @olafgarten (not bad for the price) might resolve the issue.

I was glad to see the back of dongles when AutoDesk moved to other methods of piracy protection. We could never get our insurers to understand that the true value of a dongle is far greater than its face value as a small piece of hardware.

olafgarten

jpfamps said:

olafgarten said:

Just buy one of these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-MINI-COMPUTER-PC-FOR-WINDOWS-98-OLD-DOS-GAMES-800MHZ-2GB-SSD-RS-232-PARALLEL-/222383715368?hash=item33c71a3428:g:S8sAAOSw0fhXiTfo

That looks a potentially good option too.

Thanks.

My Uncle had the same issue in the school that he works at, this one worked with their CNC Machine.

jpfamps

Jimbro66 said:

jpfamps said:

I suspect that the problem is something to do with the dongle driver.

Is there anything in the Windows 98 control panel to aid finding the dongle?

I've not used Wincisive but the 1990s versions of AutoCAD that I used all required a hardware key (dongle) and I don't recall there being any access to the dongle in Control Panel. Dongle setup was in a drop-down menu on the AutoCAD screen  -  the 'Help' menu if I remember correctly. Is there nothing like that in Wincisive? A long shot might be looking in Device Manager if not already done?

As has already been said, the issue is likely to be either the dongle driver or the parallel port of that particular laptop. Are there any markings on the dongle to indicate manufacturer? They may still be in business even though the software is defunct. BTW the Italian company Venture SRL that handled Wincisive still has a Facebook presence but not updated for three years so presumably they failed soon after that.

Trying either a different Win9* pc, if you can find/borrow one, or even the German one suggested by @olafgarten (not bad for the price) might resolve the issue.

I was glad to see the back of dongles when AutoDesk moved to other methods of piracy protection. We could never get our insurers to understand that the true value of a dongle is far greater than its face value as a small piece of hardware.

I've tried contacting Venture via Facebook, and via a couple of other email addresses, but to no avail.

They have definitely stopped trading.

There is nothing obvious in Wincisive re the dongle setup.

We have had the machine working from another computer running the software in a virtual Windows 98 machine, which suggests to me that the problem is with the port.

We also have another Wincisive dongle, which I am now trying to find.

jpfamps

olafgarten said:

jpfamps said:

olafgarten said:

Just buy one of these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-MINI-COMPUTER-PC-FOR-WINDOWS-98-OLD-DOS-GAMES-800MHZ-2GB-SSD-RS-232-PARALLEL-/222383715368?hash=item33c71a3428:g:S8sAAOSw0fhXiTfo

That looks a potentially good option too.

Thanks.

My Uncle had the same issue in the school that he works at, this one worked with their CNC Machine.

Great.

Thanks for the info!

hywelg

Sporky said:

strumjoughlamps said:

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

Extraordinarily unlikely to work - the dongles require interrupt level access to the hardware parallel port, whereas USB doohickies emulate a virtual printer port.

Not much help for a laptop but I installed a LPT card in my desktop running win7 in order to drive a 90's A0 HP plotter. No dongle of course but the card was easy to set up. Wonder if this might work with win98 running in a virtual machine?

jpfamps

hywelg said:

Sporky said:

strumjoughlamps said:

Wonder if it might be worth trying a USB to LPT adapter.??

Extraordinarily unlikely to work - the dongles require interrupt level access to the hardware parallel port, whereas USB doohickies emulate a virtual printer port.

Not much help for a laptop but I installed a LPT card in my desktop running win7 in order to drive a 90's A0 HP plotter. No dongle of course but the card was easy to set up. Wonder if this might work with win98 running in a virtual machine?

We'll probably try an LPT card with Windows 98 running a virtual machine as a first port of call; this is what I assume we were using when the machine was working.