Keeping a Stratocaster In Tune

jaymenon

I have had a number of Stratocasters (some rather nice ones), the last one being a Warmoth Strat with
- Wilkinson VS100 Tremolo (locking posts, locking saddles, the works)
- A rather special Martin Sims neck
 
This one too wouldn't stay in tune. I could dive bomb and it would come back in tune.  But if I bent a string 3 semi-tones, it would return flat. A press of the tremolo arm would bring the string back in tune (Chris Kinman mentions this phenomenon as being normal for the strat). Needless to say the nut slots were cut perfectly.

Audio illustration:

My Strat Tuning Instability 

https://soundcloud.com/jaymenon/my-strat-tuning-instability 

It started to irritate me to a degree that I started avoiding the Strat...

In the end I went with a system based on the Guthrie Govan Charvel.

- Non fine tuner Floyd Rose locking tremolo
- The same Martin Sims neck (which has)
     Back Angled headstock
     Bone nut with beautifully cut and lubricated nut slots
     No string trees
     Locking tuning machines

The strings are locked at both ends - so the only point of friction is the nut

[Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/fBHYarB.jpg)
[Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/VEFmBCs.jpg)
[Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/95kAjQ2.jpg)

This one stays beautifully in tune - better than any Strat I have ever had.

Same neck / nut - so it wasn't faulty nut slots.

I do however, still have a fascination for a classic / conventional strat - and a dream that somewhere, someone knows how to make one that stays in tune perfectly - as stable as a locking tremolo or a hard-tail.  A fantasy...?

Expert opinions deeply appreciated.

Jay

rico

Block off the trem. 

Sassafras

Old strings vs new ones?

poopot

Do this...

http://a67.tinypic.com/k3oegy.jpg

jaymenon

Hi Sassafras - fresh strings are a given...

Re: blocking off the trem (ideally with a block of wood, or with 5 springs on a classic 6 point tremolo) - you might as well play a telecaster or a hard-tail strat.

My question pertains as to whether a floating tremolo on a stratocaster can be stable, in the way that a locking tremolo system can be...

strat1990

poopot said:

Do this...

http://a67.tinypic.com/k3oegy.jpg

Agreed. I do this to all mine and they stay in tune fine

Alnico

My American Pro..

https://i.imgur.com/4znrLxp.jpg

Gotoh HD Power Springs.
10-46 strings, soon to be 10-52.
No tuning problems whatsoever.
Handmade bone nut and set up by @SteveRobinson

So far it's on standard tuners but soon they'll be Locking type just to iron out any small tuning issues but even now it's nothing I can't live with until the end of the song when I can stand on a tuner.

It's featherlight, floats a whole tone up on the G string and a whole tone bend on the 1st string, up to two whole tone bends on the 2nd and two and a half tones (5 semitones) on the 3rd strings are no problem, no tuning loss I can immediately hear and an E major chord sounds fine...( I just checked).

Yes, of course Strats can be stable but in my own experience, it depended largely on the Tech who set it up as to how well it performed.

Steve has done a few of my guitars and they're all immaculately set up. My Gretsch plays so well it feels like a really sorted Les Paul with an even bigger-ass body than they already have and that's all down to Steve. Go ahead and play lead on it, even with 10-52 strings and it'll feel as comfy as any LP with a nice easy, low action......but you look down and you're playing a Gretsch. Steve is a great Tech.

A decent Tech should be able to make a decent Strat stable.

Does that help?

ICBM

There are only three (or four) possible causes of the trouble - the bridge, the nut and the machineheads. (And the string trees, if it has them.)

If only one string goes out, it's not the bridge - that would put all of them out - which leaves the nut and the machinehead. If moving the bridge allows it to come back into tune, it's the nut - a machinehead, or the string winding on it, can't 'de-slip'. (Or the string tree, if the string in question has one.)

You can get a standard Strat to stay in tune pretty well, but nothing stays in tune as well as a Floyd - not even a hardtail.

ab2017

Flys in the "vaseline" we are..... and toothpick

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

You can get a standard Strat to stay in tune pretty well, but nothing stays in tune as well as a Floyd - not even a hardtail.

Evertune - though it isn't the answer here if OP wants a trem.

jaymenon

ICBM said:

There are only three (or four) possible causes of the trouble - the bridge, the nut and the machineheads. (And the string trees, if it has them.)

Nut - is unchanged and now the guitar stays in tune
Machine heads - also unchanged
No string trees

So the problem was the Wilkinson VS100 (which I sincerely hoped would be an upgrade over the traditional stratocaster tremolo.

ICBM said:

You can get a standard Strat to stay in tune pretty well, but nothing stays in tune as well as a Floyd - not even a hardtail.

Nicely put, thank you John - I think that answers my primary question. A strat tremolo will always be a compromise (even if for some people a workable compromise).

Personally, I'm happy to tune my guitars once a week or so, but I don't like to keep tuning constantly, as I see many strat players doing.  With a Telecaster or Les Paul it's so simple - pick it up, and it's probably still in tune from the last time you played it...!

ICBM

jaymenon said:

Nut - is unchanged and now the guitar stays in tune

Machine heads - also unchanged
No string trees

So the problem was the Wilkinson VS100 (which I sincerely hoped would be an upgrade over the traditional stratocaster tremolo.

Strange that it only affected the string that was bent. Could the saddle have been moving?

Personally I’ve never liked them, and I certainly don’t think they’re an improvement over the Fender design...

jaymenon said:

With a Telecaster or Les Paul it's so simple - pick it up, and it's probably still in tune from the last time you played it...!

You should see the complaints about Les Pauls! The string angles at the nut cause no end of trouble, especially on the G and D strings.

Chuffola

Never been able to keep a Les Paul in tune - so I hate them.

Never had any tuning issues with a Start - so I love them.

Ain't life weird?

p90fool

jaymenon said:

Personally, I'm happy to tune my guitars once a week or so, but I don't like to keep tuning constantly

You must be a very busy man. Would twice a week be do-able, say Wednesday lunchtimes and Sunday mornings?
 

impmann

TBH, if the same neck/nut stays in tune on another guitar, it’s got to be the bridge.
My Six-screw Strats stay in tune fine - I don’t dive bomb because this isn’t 1986 but hand vibrato etc plus big bends are the norm. Think poor man’s David Gilmour without the talent.
The Wilkinson trem is ok - but not really an upgrade. The only improvement is the arm  - lack of slop on some but manufacturing tolerances seem to be... variable. 
I’d suggest either a Callaham or (slightly unusual owner aside) a Wudtone trem.

mistercharlie

I have a similar setup, and my Strat is the most stable guitar I have. Even with lots of (non-extreme) whammying, it stays in tune from day to day. 

I have the same Wilkinson Gotoh trem, no string trees, well-cut corian nut, and nut sauce on bridge and nut. Just to say the Wilkinson is pretty great. Mine is floating on two springs. 

I use Ernie Ball RPS strings. I’ve found they’re more stable on trem guitars. 

gusman2x

ICBM said:

You can get a standard Strat to stay in tune pretty well, but nothing stays in tune as well as a Floyd - not even a hardtail.

My Floyd equipped guitar is the only guitar that doesn't require tuning between songs.

richardhomer

A well set up Strat usually holds its tuning very well. Mine has the trem set floating (though I rarely use it). I checked the tuning on it at home before setting off to tFB Huddersfield jam a couple of weeks ago. Having been in the car (with the heater on) for an hour, then in a very cold studio, then in the warmer control room - it was still perfectly in tune when I came to play.

Poor stringing/tuning technique, badly cut nuts and incorrectly adjusted pivot screws are usually the cause of tuning problems with Strats.

Pete24v

When i built my Warmoth Strat, i started out with a SuperVee Bladerunner trem. It never returned to pitch. Mainly the B&G strings, but in heavy use all of them. I used it for over a year like this, but had to stop using the trem. 

With everything on the guitar the same, sperzels, bone nut, no string trees.. I installed a Wudtone bridge, I can't recall which version, but it sits on a thin strip of metal and has a big strip of metal on the top of the unit.

This guitar now never goes out of tune, but the best part was the added resonance. It's way louder acoustically and I can feel the whole guitar vibrating more (than any other guitar i currently own) when played live. 

p90fool

I'm a big fan of the Wudtone trem too, it sounds great and the shim really works. 

I know Andy can be a bit of a 'character', but he works to sound engineering principles. 

jaymenon

The WudTone bridge looks very interesting.  Also it isn't simply a 'we are better' claim - the science / physics seems to make sense.

My guitar tech did wonder though - if what WudTone achieves by re-engineering the bridge can perhaps be achieved more simply by some lateral thinking, such as using screws with countersunk heads instead of dome head screws to reduce bridge float and binding...