Wanted: the definitive way of fixing Les Paul tuning issues

Jonathanthomas83

Let’s try and leave snarky comments at the door, I know the ultimate cure is not to buy one! ;-)

We are where we are and I love my Gibson, but don’t love the tuning instability. 

So, in an effort to document some potential best practices from the experts on here, like @FelineGuitars and @ICBM, and others, I’m really hoping to get a go-to guide going to help myself and others, if you would be so kind as to share your advice?

Apologies if this has been done before, but I’m really struggling and need to find out some ways of fixing the issues with the G string, mainly.

many thanks

Sporky

Tuning issues are normally nut-related.

Jonathanthomas83

As a bit of background, I have just installed some Gotoh Magnum locking tuners and they’re great but the odd G string slip still happens. I’ve used nut sauce and that doesn’t fix it either. I’ve got a Les Paul standard with a regular bridge and tail piece.

Jonathanthomas83

Sporky said:

Tuning issues are normally nut-related.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. As a beginner to guitar DIY, I’m wondering what I can do, in the context of Les Paul nuts, to fix it?

guitarfishbay

guitarfishbay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Sporky said:

Tuning issues are normally nut-related.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. As a beginner to guitar DIY, I’m wondering what I can do, in the context of Les Paul nuts, to fix it?

Lithium grease, one tub will last years and years if you’re only doing your own guitars. This is of course assuming the nut is cut correctly, which has to be step 1.

stickyfiddle

The slots are probably not cut wide enough, it’s a very common problem. I keep a set of welding nozzle cleaning files (about £4 on eBay) to just widen all nut slots just a fraction. 

Then use nut sauce for extra lubrication if needed, but it rarely is.

Rocker

There has to be somebody in these parts of the world who will fit the Buzz Feiten Tuning System on your guitar.  Get it done and your tuning issues are no more.  Before you do spend what it takes for the job, play a Tom Anderson and find out what the BFTS brings to your playing.

ICBM

Jonathanthomas83 said:

We are where we are and I love my Gibson, but don’t love the tuning instability. 

So, in an effort to document some potential best practices from the experts on here, like @FelineGuitars and @ICBM, and others, I’m really hoping to get a go-to guide going to help myself and others, if you would be so kind as to share your advice?

Apologies if this has been done before, but I’m really struggling and need to find out some ways of fixing the issues with the G string, mainly.

Cutting the nut groove correctly - wide enough, smoothly rounded on the bottom, flared at the headstock side and polished - and lubed is about the best you can do. Locking machineheads *may* help slightly by absolutely minimising the string wind on the post, but you can achieve more or less exactly the same by lock-wrapping the string as short as possible.

At the end of the day that wide headstock is just not ideal for minimising string friction on the G and D strings.

Rocker said:

There has to be somebody in these parts of the world who will fit the Buzz Feiten Tuning System on your guitar.  Get it done and your tuning issues are no more.  Before you do spend what it takes for the job, play a Tom Anderson and find out what the BFTS brings to your playing.

The Buzz Feiten tuning system is a set of intonation changes which makes the guitar *play* more (or less, depending on your viewpoint) in tune - it has no bearing on whether the guitar *stays* in tune, which is to do with the string sticking at the nut or bridge saddle, or slipping on the machinehead post... or very rarely a faulty machinehead.

Personally I'm not a fan - the forward compensated nut position is correct (PRS and others also use it) but the intonation offsets make some chords in some positions sound worse, so I prefer to simply set them up the same way as normal.

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

The Buzz Feiten tuning system ... I'm not a fan

The idea is fine but the bogus mystique is unnecessary and, for the amount of work entailed, the price is excessive. 

AlexC

I’ve got an Epiphone LP Standard - which is 99% the same as a Gibson in terms of design. Tuning instability was driving me up the bloody wall - so much so that I was seriously considering getting rid of the bloody thing. So, about 2 weeks ago I went mad rubbing pencil graphite in the nut as a stage one attack. Presto! haven’t had to do anything else. It’s worked a treat. Also, with Gibson style guitars I find really, really pre-stretching the strings helps enormously.

guitarfishbay

The nuclear option is evertune.  It depends what you want out of an instrument.  Personally I have quite wide vibrato and do a lot of bending, I like to vibrato chords/powerchords, plus I like to play quite hard, and I tune low... evertune suits me very well.  I'm in two minds about getting one for my Les Paul, or just selling the thing and getting an ESP with one already on - preferably the EII Eclipse, but it's out of my price range for now.

Anyway, here's Andy James shredding on an LP type with an evertune.

Jonathanthomas83

As much as it's the nuclear option, it's appealing isn't it...despite it being really ugly! Evertune is made for that headstock's imperfections isn't it!

Thanks for all your thoughts. everyone. I need to practice cutting a few nuts...I can tell mine isn't up to scratch based on the reading and research I've done tonight...needs work, for sure.

Also need to find myself some good tools.

This advice seems good, is it? http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html

Freebird

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thanks for all your thoughts. everyone. I need to practice cutting a few nuts...I can tell mine isn't up to scratch based on the reading and research I've done tonight...needs work, for sure.

Couldn't your local guitar tech sort it out?

sweepy

Apart from making sure that the nut slot is wide enough, check that the backward angle of the slot is cut correctly. The intonation is set on the leading edge of the slot, if it’s horizontal and not cut deeper at the back, you will have intonation issues as well as tuning ones,  After making sure that the basics are right a Les Paul is one of the most stable guitars out there for tuning

adampeter

I'm no expert but the main 2 problems with a LP to my mind are the scale length and the angle of the G and D from the nut to peg.
Scale length will always mean intonation is a compromise, which is worse than a Fender/PRS scale length
And that G nut to peg angle will always be prone to pinching at the nut
None of that stops it from being a great guitar though

ICBM

adampeter said:

Scale length will always mean intonation is a compromise, which is worse than a Fender/PRS scale length

That’s total nonsense.

I’d be interested to know the logic behind that...

As long as all the frets are correctly spaced then any scale length can be intonated accurately.

Jonathanthomas83

Yeah, I've never had problems intonating correctly with that scale length. Or any other.

guitarfishbay

Well, there’s a point in there that intonation is not static. It’s also affected by finger pressure/technique, and picking strength. Both of those things affect dynamically. This can often be heard if you pass the same properly tuned guitar between a good player and a beginner player - it’s likely the better player will intonation it better.

In standard tuning there’s not really any noticeable difference between Gibson and Fender scale lengths in use that I’ve noticed.

Personally I found in drop B that my Les Paul was appreciably worse for playing intonation than my Fender and even PRS guitars. It just goes sharp more easily, even with thick strings. This is due to tension more so than an inherent intonation issue with the scale. You can of course play it in tune, just with a lesser dynamic range. 

Jonathanthomas83

Anyone got any good examples of what the nut should look like? Mine is really flat at the top. (Jesus, looking it at this angle, makes me furious that Gibson doesn't do anything about that angle, it's pointless!).

@AlexC your Epiphone won't have the same severe headstock angle (I think it's shallower), and shouldn't have such severe issues as this one.

WezV

Look at the dark line above the G string.  Notice it almost disappears on the headstock edge of the nut.  Flare out the slot a bit in that location.