Fender 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb vs Hot Rod DLX & attenuators...

Joe_Easy

EDIT - I'm now considering the new 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb and forgetting the volume issues!  In fact, I'm pretty much sold...



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Hello Forum...

Couple of things;

1. I currently use a HRDlxIII, which for lots of reasons, I'm very fond of...but I recently test drove the 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, and seriously loved it - so, I'm thinking of 'upgrading'. I think my only reservation is losing a dedicated tube driven overdrive channel, in exchange for probably having to use a good overdrive pedal. I'm thinking I'll probably us an ABY box, so I can still use the amp as two-channel; one channel pushed slightly harder to essentially operate as a dedicated drive channel.

Does anyone else work like that? Is there a flaw in my plan? Has anyone else made the transition from a hot rod to a deluxe reverb, and are you glad you did?

2. I was also thinking of buying a smaller amp more suited for home use, but given the lower weight and smaller frame of the DR, I'm thinking that would suffice if I were to use an attenuator to keep the volume manageable (looking at the Weber Mass Lite 100)...again, has anyone used their DR with an attenuator? Do they play well together?

Cheers.

Richardj

I run my '68 Custom Twin with a simple EHX A/B switch and it works just fine. Totally clean into the Vintage channel and effects into the Custom channel.

I had a '65 DRRi before and that was (obviously) far more home use friendly but you would still need drive pedals to get any sort of dirt at home, or anyway as it is still a fairly polite drive compared to the HRDX.

ProGuitarShop.com is always a good place to check out effects as they almost always use a DRRi.  

Joe_Easy

Richardj said:

I run my '68 Custom Twin with a simple EHX A/B switch and it works just fine. Totally clean into the Vintage channel and effects into the Custom channel.

I had a '65 DRRi before and that was (obviously) far more home use friendly but you would still need drive pedals to get any sort of dirt at home, or anyway as it is still a fairly polite drive compared to the HRDX.

ProGuitarShop.com is always a good place to check out effects as they almost always use a DRRi.  

Cool. Yeah, that's basically the set-up I'm planning. Thanks for that. 

Did you ever play around with attenuators?

Richardj

I personally never found the need for attenuators.  I have tried a few (on friends amps) but always found that they suck some of the tone.  One of the things I like about the Blackface based amps is that the clean tone is there from the get go.  Again personally I am happier getting crunch and drive from pedals as you have more tonal options.  Of course with the twin getting it to break up on it's own isn't an option at anything but health endangering levels so drive pedals are sort of a must.

ICBM

Attenuators don't suck tone (or most of them don't, anyway) when used fairly moderately.

It's an aural illusion caused by the very thing they do, reducing the volume.

You can fairly easily prove this by recording the same amp attenuated and unattenuated, normalising the recordings and playing back the results at the same volume.

Anything which reduces volume without affecting the tone appears to affect the tone, it's just the way your ears/brain works unfortunately!

Joe_Easy

ICBM said:

Attenuators don't suck tone (or most of them don't, anyway) when used fairly moderately.

It's an aural illusion caused by the very thing they do, reducing the volume.

You can fairly easily prove this by recording the same amp attenuated and unattenuated, normalising the recordings and playing back the results at the same volume.

Anything which reduces volume without affecting the tone appears to affect the tone, it's just the way your ears/brain works unfortunately!

I agree with your comment in the most part; I believe you're referring to the phenomenon defined by the Fletcher-Munson curves - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves - but this doesn't account for the distortion of the actual speaker which would be achieved at higher volumes.  However, I suspect the 'tone suck' could be partly resolved using EQ...

Gassage

Going back to OP, having owned both, one is sensational (DRRI) the other is OK-ish.

Joe_Easy

Gassage said:

Going back to OP, having owned both, one is sensational (DRRI) the other is OK-ish.

Yes, that's the feeling I got when I test drove the DRRI, hence why I'm now considering the change.  I have my HRDlx sounding pretty nice now, following valve upgrades and a speaker change, but the DRRI sounded amazing from stock.

You imply you've owned both, but no longer own either...what are you using currently?

Gassage

I have had both yeah.

I have 3 amps

1972 Hiwatt DR103 and 1978 Hiwatt 4 x 12 with Fane Pulsonic spkrs.
Clapton Twinolux
Fender SF Princeton.

That should tell you why- I do like the DRRI- but I'd have a SF UL 70s Twin Reverb over it for less money.

I think they're cracking amps, but I also think there's better choices if you're not too fussed on a big amp.

I liked the DRRI, esp with a Weber upgrade. The HRD was a bit meh.

ICBM

I'm the other way round, I prefer the HRD to the DRRI. Yes, I know this is heresy .

The Deluxe Reverb has a truly beautiful clean tone at low to medium volume, but doesn't quite do it for me overdriven - it's both too farty and too harsh when it's pushed hard. The fartiness is sometimes thought to be a characteristic of 6V6s, but it isn't - I had a Mesa Blue Angel which has an overdriven sound in 6V6s mode that the Deluxe can't even come close to - much fatter and chunkier, and that nice thick 6V6 'flub' without any farting. The clean sound was actually better, too...

The HRD is far more versatile. It has a much louder, tighter clean sound and can do a good, almost Tweed Deluxe overdrive sound at quite low volume using the much-derided Drive channel. I've got the best low-volume Neil Young sound I've heard using one like that. I admit the reverb isn't quite as nice as the Deluxe Reverb, and it doesn't have tremolo. (And the 'More Drive' mode isn't that useful really, unless you turn down the drive and use that as your main dirty sound, with the Drive as a nearly-clean tone.)

I do like the DRRI, but I honestly think it's a bit over-rated and probably overpriced compared to the HRD. Don't forget the Blues Deluxe either, it's basically a HRD without the More Drive mode, but slightly differently voiced and comes in tweed.

Totally personal taste though.

Gassage

Hmmm- I actually prefer the Peavey Classic series to the HRD. I know that's a tough call but....

Joe_Easy

Gassage said:

I have had both yeah.

I have 3 amps

1972 Hiwatt DR103 and 1978 Hiwatt 4 x 12 with Fane Pulsonic spkrs.
Clapton Twinolux
Fender SF Princeton.

That should tell you why- I do like the DRRI- but I'd have a SF UL 70s Twin Reverb over it for less money.

I think they're cracking amps, but I also think there's better choices if you're not too fussed on a big amp.

I liked the DRRI, esp with a Weber upgrade. The HRD was a bit meh.

I tried the new 68 Custom Princeton and wasn't overly impressed - sounded a bit flabby and unrefined...weirdly, that's contrary to most of the opinions I've read on it, so maybe I tried a dud...

I'd love a twin, but it's way too much amp for my needs...I did spot this, though, which is very tempting as a middle ground option between the DRRI and Twin - http://www.coda-music.com/fender-vintage-modified-custom-vibrolux-reverb-soon-p-17952.html

Joe_Easy

ICBM said:

I'm the other way round, I prefer the HRD to the DRRI. Yes, I know this is heresy .

The Deluxe Reverb has a truly beautiful clean tone at low to medium volume, but doesn't quite do it for me overdriven - it's both too farty and too harsh when it's pushed hard. The fartiness is sometimes thought to be a characteristic of 6V6s, but it isn't - I had a Mesa Blue Angel which has an overdriven sound in 6V6s mode that the Deluxe can't even come close to - much fatter and chunkier, and that nice thick 6V6 'flub' without any farting. The clean sound was actually better, too...

The HRD is far more versatile. It has a much louder, tighter clean sound and can do a good, almost Tweed Deluxe overdrive sound at quite low volume using the much-derided Drive channel. I've got the best low-volume Neil Young sound I've heard using one like that. I admit the reverb isn't quite as nice as the Deluxe Reverb, and it doesn't have tremolo. (And the 'More Drive' mode isn't that useful really, unless you turn down the drive and use that as your main dirty sound, with the Drive as a nearly-clean tone.)

I do like the DRRI, but I honestly think it's a bit over-rated and probably overpriced compared to the HRD. Don't forget the Blues Deluxe either, it's basically a HRD without the More Drive mode, but slightly differently voiced and comes in tweed.

Totally personal taste though.

I did try running the drive channel as a second clean tone, with the more drive as my main overdrive sound, but that drive channel sounds pretty uninspiring when cleaned up...to me that is.

My original plan was to hang onto the HRD and get a Princeton as my home/practice amp, but having tried it, I changed my mind.  Tried the DRRI and thought that would probably suit all my needs...so sell the HRD to get the extra ££ required.  Honestly, I'm totally undecided; I've changed my mind three times over the course of this thread!

I moved into a smaller home recently (forced by a move down London way...)...so I like the idea of having a single, great quality amp, that will do everything I need it to.  Currently I have the HRD and this (which I'm trying to sell, originally for the funds to buy a Princeton...but now, who knows), both way too big for home.

Gassage

Joe_Easy said:

Gassage said:

I have had both yeah.

I have 3 amps

1972 Hiwatt DR103 and 1978 Hiwatt 4 x 12 with Fane Pulsonic spkrs.
Clapton Twinolux
Fender SF Princeton.

That should tell you why- I do like the DRRI- but I'd have a SF UL 70s Twin Reverb over it for less money.

I think they're cracking amps, but I also think there's better choices if you're not too fussed on a big amp.

I liked the DRRI, esp with a Weber upgrade. The HRD was a bit meh.

I tried the new 68 Custom Princeton and wasn't overly impressed - sounded a bit flabby and unrefined...weirdly, that's contrary to most of the opinions I've read on it, so maybe I tried a dud...

I'd love a twin, but it's way too much amp for my needs...I did spot this, though, which is very tempting as a middle ground option between the DRRI and Twin - http://www.coda-music.com/fender-vintage-modified-custom-vibrolux-reverb-soon-p-17952.html

Joe

Beware those Vibroluxs.

On the plus side, lovely natural tone and warmth from the 10's

On the downside, noisy as hell and virtually everyone does a mod on them to remove the hissy crap- @ICBM would surely know more about this.

They're a frustrating amp- lovely underlying tone under a load of noisy slushy hiss.

ICBM

Gassage said:

Beware those Vibroluxs.

On the plus side, lovely natural tone and warmth from the 10's

On the downside, noisy as hell and virtually everyone does a mod on them to remove the hissy crap- @ICBM would surely know more about this.

They're a frustrating amp- lovely underlying tone under a load of noisy slushy hiss.

Reinstating the NFB loop that Fender in their wisdom decided to remove from the original Vibrolux Reverb circuit does it apparently. I haven't done one but that seems to be the online consensus - it would make sense.

Joe_Easy

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

Beware those Vibroluxs.

On the plus side, lovely natural tone and warmth from the 10's

On the downside, noisy as hell and virtually everyone does a mod on them to remove the hissy crap- @ICBM would surely know more about this.

They're a frustrating amp- lovely underlying tone under a load of noisy slushy hiss.

Reinstating the NFB loop that Fender in their wisdom decided to remove from the original Vibrolux Reverb circuit does it apparently. I haven't done one but that seems to be the online consensus - it would make sense.

Is the issue present in the new 68 Custom version?  I don't think they're even shipping yet, are they?

ThePrettyDamned

Gassage;335910" said:

Hmmm- I actually prefer the Peavey Classic series to the HRD. I know that's a tough call but....

I agree, especially the classic 50 - I think this is a wonderful sounding clean amp.

I like the hrdx too though.

ICBM

Joe_Easy said:

Is the issue present in the new 68 Custom version?  I don't think they're even shipping yet, are they?

No idea, I haven't heard anything about them yet.

ThePrettyDamned said:

I agree, especially the classic 50 - I think this is a wonderful sounding clean amp.

I like the Classic 50, but I'm much less keen on the 30.

Gassage

Do you guys prefer the 212 or 410? I like them both for diff reasons.

ICBM

Hard to say... probably the 212. The Fender Devilles are the other way round though, I prefer the 410s, by a wider margin. Although it may just be the stock speakers in all of them - Hotrod Deluxes can sound much better with different speakers, but I've never tried other ones in a 212 Deville. I've heard a 410 Deville with Celestion Vintage 10s and didn't like it. I didn't much like the Classic 50 Special Edition with V30s either.

ThePrettyDamned

Only one I've heard is the 212, and it had a pair of eminence speakers iirc, non standard (was second hand).

Sounded great on both channels, and I put a Joe satch sig distortion in front. Sounded brilliant! No idea why I didn't buy it, I think (seriously) the tweed put me off.

Now, I've grown up