Fender 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb vs Hot Rod DLX & attenuators...

ThePrettyDamned · August 2014

How does it get 50 watts from 4 el84s? Normally that'll only kick out 30... On paper. I know it's never that straightforward but it definitely sounded different to the classic 30s!

ICBM · August 2014

ThePrettyDamned said:

How does it get 50 watts from 4 el84s? Normally that'll only kick out 30... On paper. I know it's never that straightforward but it definitely sounded different to the classic 30s!

You can get a genuine 22W from a pair of EL84s in fixed bias with the plates at 400+V and the screens run lower to stop them failing. Mesa do that in a few of their amps. So 44W from four is possible.

The rest is probably down to defining it at a higher than standard THD level - eg 5% rather than 1% - which can drastically increase the power for a relatively small (or not at all) audible amount of distortion, in a guitar amp.

Or just by outright bullshitting being creative with marketing.

The typical 30W from four is in cathode bias and at the more intended voltages for them. The 30 is also fixed bias though.

Joe_Easy · August 2014

ICBM;335896" said:
I'm the other way round, I prefer the HRD to the DRRI. Yes, I know this is heresy .

The Deluxe Reverb has a truly beautiful clean tone at low to medium volume, but doesn't quite do it for me overdriven - it's both too farty and too harsh when it's pushed hard. The fartiness is sometimes thought to be a characteristic of 6V6s, but it isn't - I had a Mesa Blue Angel which has an overdriven sound in 6V6s mode that the Deluxe can't even come close to - much fatter and chunkier, and that nice thick 6V6 'flub' without any farting. The clean sound was actually better, too...

The HRD is far more versatile. It has a much louder, tighter clean sound and can do a good, almost Tweed Deluxe overdrive sound at quite low volume using the much-derided Drive channel. I've got the best low-volume Neil Young sound I've heard using one like that. I admit the reverb isn't quite as nice as the Deluxe Reverb, and it doesn't have tremolo. (And the 'More Drive' mode isn't that useful really, unless you turn down the drive and use that as your main dirty sound, with the Drive as a nearly-clean tone.)

I do like the DRRI, but I honestly think it's a bit over-rated and probably overpriced compared to the HRD. Don't forget the Blues Deluxe either, it's basically a HRD without the More Drive mode, but slightly differently voiced and comes in tweed.

Totally personal taste though.

Are you basing this opinion on the 65 DRRI or early models? It's specifically the newer 68 Custom I'm looking at...

koneguitarist · August 2014

Gassage said:

Hmmm- I actually prefer the Peavey Classic series to the HRD. I know that's a tough call but....

I prefer the peavey Bandit to the HRD, one sounds like a valve amp one has valves!

p90fool · September 2014

ThePrettyDamned said:

I agree, especially the classic 50 - I think this is a wonderful sounding clean amp.

I like the hrdx too though.

I used a Classic 50 in a studio once and liked it very much, so I specified one for a gig;

http://i58.tinypic.com/4smgba.jpg

..and it just didn't work for me at volume, it was very harsh and punchy. They did a quick change to a red knob Twin for me between songs

I find the Hotrod Deluxe similar to the Classic 50 to be honest, they just feel too aggressive to me compared to a DRRI.

They're good amps, but I always feel I'd need to do a lot of tedious and expensive speaker experimentation at high volume to get the best out of them.

Joe_Easy · September 2014

Sorry, I've just realised I've made several references to the DRRI; it is, in fact, the 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb I'm considering, which is NOT a reissue and while it is similar to the DRRI in many ways, it is definitely not the same. It is part of Fender's 'Vintage Modified' range and features different tone stacks, a celestion speaker and modified circuitry.

I did actually refer to the 68 Custom Deluxe in my OP, but there has been many comparisons made between the DRRI and the HRDlx, which isn't actually what I'm interested in. To reiterate; I have a Hot Rod Deluxe Mk3, which I'm considering changing for the 68 CDR, not the 65 DRRi.

Does anyone have any experience of the 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb?

Richardj · September 2014

As far as I know the Vintage channel on the '68 Custom is very similar to the '65, although they could have taken out the bright cap which would be no bad thing. The Custom channel is voiced slightly differently and of course has access to reverb and vibrato. There is a pretty good Youtube video from Guitarist mag where they A/B them.

Unless you are a slave to the '65 Blackface look I'm not entirely why anyone would choose one over the new '68s. Fender appear to have addressed a lot of the issues that caused people to mod the '65s. and they are cheaper.

Joe_Easy · September 2014

Hmmm...Yeah, the 68 sounds much nicer to my ears. Breaks up slightly earlier than the 65, which is a bit of a concern...but I was also considering the Super-Sonic 22 and judging by this video, the SS22 breaks up even earlier.

I think the 68DR sounds much nicer in that vid too...

downbytheriver · September 2014

I have been using a 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb since March - I use it as an alternative to my Lazy J for a different feel and sound. I absolutely love it - it took a couple of gigs to come out of its shell but once it was broken in (I assume the speaker) it really sings. I wouldn't hesitate!

Joe_Easy · September 2014

downbytheriver said:

I have been using a 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb since March - I use it as an alternative to my Lazy J for a different feel and sound. I absolutely love it - it took a couple of gigs to come out of its shell but once it was broken in (I assume the speaker) it really sings. I wouldn't hesitate!

Good to hear. What amp were you using previously? Have you ever owned a HRDlx?

Joe_Easy · September 2014

Oh...

Well this changes things...In theory, the same volume, in fact about 1dB (negligible) quieter than the Deluxe (98dB @ 22W = 111.5dB vs 95db @ 35W = 110.5db) Only £100 more...tube bias trem, bright switch...hmmmm...

ICBM · September 2014

Joe_Easy said:
In theory, the same volume, in fact about 1dB (negligible) quieter than the Deluxe (98dB @ 22W = 111.5dB vs 95db @ 35W = 110.5db)

Not quite. You get more volume from two speakers, even of the same sensitivity. Depending on the speakers and cabinet design you typically gain about 2dB if you double the number of speakers, so the Vibrolux will be a little louder than the Deluxe. (And from experience, it is.)

Joe_Easy · September 2014

ICBM said:

Joe_Easy said:
In theory, the same volume, in fact about 1dB (negligible) quieter than the Deluxe (98dB @ 22W = 111.5dB vs 95db @ 35W = 110.5db)

Not quite. You get more volume from two speakers, even of the same sensitivity. Depending on the speakers and cabinet design you typically gain about 2dB if you double the number of speakers, so the Vibrolux will be a little louder than the Deluxe. (And from experience, it is.)

Yeah, I realised that after posting...of course, there'll be some constructive interference between the two speakers, which will actually add nearer to 3db, so very audible. I was being a dumbass.

Still very tempting, though.

downbytheriver · September 2014

Sorry - didn't see this - I actually don't like the HRDlx at all! Sorry... I've been using mostly 5E3 derived amps - Lazy J, Victoria etc.

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Fender 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb vs Hot Rod DLX & attenuators...

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