Acoustic guitar issue. Help !!!

Cham10

Hi, I have recently had a Dovina guitar built to my specifications and delivered. 

Unfortunately the guitar was not insured during shipping by the dealer and it has arrived with a damaged case and a flaw on the guitar itself. 

The dealer is suggesting that they are entitled to repair the guitar and i don’t feel I should have to accept something that’s arrived damaged. 

The mark on the guitar is minuscule but my concern is that the force required to pierce the outside carton and then break through the case material must have put the guitar inside under some force. 

Any suggestions/ help would be gratefully received. The guitar cost me £3000 

Philly_Q

Probably best moving this to "Guitar" or "Acoustics".  If you click on the cog wheel at top right you can change the category.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. 

Cham10

Thanks

ICBM

I'm not a legal expert but this is a difficult one I think - normally under UK consumer law you would have the right to return it for a full refund within 14 days regardless of the reason, BUT there is an exception for something which has been made to the customer's specifications. If they interpret this as applying (which I assume they are doing), then they have the right to refuse a refund and to offer a repair instead. It must still be covered by the warranty after that though, so if some problem does arise as a result of the previous damage, they would have to repair or replace it, so I would expect them to check it thoroughly.

mgaw

I would have thought that, irrespective of the fact it’s a custom order, you have the right of return.
my understanding of the “custom order” situation is that you can’t return it as unsuitable etc, you paid 3k for a guitar , it arrived damaged, that is on the seller not you

TTony

It's difficult - nay impossible - to give any definitive comment on the basis of what you've said.

Did the guitar arrive direct from the factory, from an overseas dealer, or via a UK dealer?  
Re the "flaw" - is that something likely/possibly caused by the damage-in-shipping, or a manufacturing defect, or an inherent characteristic of the woods?
How is the case damaged?  Split into many pieces, dented, scratched?  Not that that's important in and of itself (the case should be replaced if damaged) but the type and extent of damage could indicate how it was caused and thus the likelihood of damage to the guitar itself.

Pics - case damage and guitar flaw - would be really helpful.

Jaycee

Basically you ordered a new guitar and it arrived damaged, send it back. Insured shipping is not your responsibility it is the sellers,  if he wanted to save on insurance that is up to him not you .

Cham10

Thanks for your comments guys. I will take some advice on this. Much appreciated. 

TheMadMick

he question is - is the guitar of merchantable quality. I'd suggest that at £3k ,it should be defect free when it reaches you. There are regulations covering this.

Personally, if offered a repair, I'd take it provided it does not compromise your statutory rights. Let's face it, the instrument will probably suffer greater damage through it's life no matter how careful you are with it.

By the by, did you consider some of the UK makers. I'd have thought you'd get a quality hand made guitar for about the same money and keep the British in a job.

BigPaulie

TheMadMick said:

By the by, did you consider some of the UK makers. I'd have thought you'd get a quality hand made guitar for about the same money and keep the British in a job.

You are Nigel Farage and I claim my free Melton Mowbray pork pie...

Tannin

Who is doing the repair? If it is anyone other than Dowina themselves, tell the vendor to get knotted, you want a refund.

If Dowina themselves are performing the work, you can be confident that it will be performed to their standards and should accept that. 

Obviously, the case needs to be replaced outright.

NickL

As it was more than £100, if you paid any part of the cost on a credit card, the goods or service provided were unsatisfactory and the seller won't resolve the problem, your next option might be to make a Section 75 claim to your credit card provider.

BillDL

The UK consumer protection laws do make a distinction between off the shelf items and bespoke, custom made, or personalised items with regard to the 14 day right to return for a refund without giving a reason.  You generally have exactly the same rights as the buyer of standard items in that you should expect it to: be free from defects or faults, match the agreed-upon specifications and descriptions, and be fit for the intended purpose.  A retailer or maker / seller taking back a returned item that truly is a bespoke one-off or that has been engraved, etc may not be able to resell that item and therefore may be exempt from offering the 14-day refund option, but it really does depend on how "custom" the item is.  Some retailers will try and hide behind the "bespoke" description when in fact an item is only a "customised" choice from a limited list of possible permutations offered.

If a guitar maker offers one shape of guitar and a limited list of woods for the various parts, a choice from a list of pickguard types, a choice of matt, satin or gloss finish, and a choice of tuning button types, that really isn't a bespoke guitar nor a personalised one.  It's a custom one of sorts, but probably not so customised or personalised that it would be of no resale value to the maker if returned under the 14 day "change of mind" clause.  A very unusual mix and match choice of woods might make it far less desirable to another purchaser though, so I think the law may well allow the maker to refuse a 14 day return as long as this fact has been made clear in the terms and conditions on the website or at the time of order.

Normally you have the right to return a faulty or damaged item within 30 days for a full refund and it would be entirely up to you whether you were willing to allow the retailer the chance to repair the fault or damage.  In the event of minor damage to a heavily and unusually customised guitar though, I think that the law may take the side of the maker in that the maker needs to be allowed the opportunity of putting the damage right to the buyer's satisfaction if possible, and only be compelled to offer a full refund if the repair is unsatisfactory and rejected with a good reason by the buyer.  In these cases it's hard to make a sweeping judgement without knowing just how "customised" the guitar is and the extent of the damage and chances of carrying out an imperceptible repair.

@Tannin made a very valid point.  I think you would be well within your rights to stand your ground and insist that ONLY Dowina or a Dowina authorised repairer is allowed to repair the guitar if you have to allow a chance for a repair to be done rather than push for a full refund.  I don't see why you should be compelled to let the dealership have a crack at drop-filling with superglue and T-cutting it, or some other hack job.

I think you should seek legal advice on this one because of the potential complexities of the guitar being a custom order.

https://www.legaldocuments.co.uk/consumer-law-rights-and-remedies/consumer-rights-in-custom-made-and-personalized-goods/

You probably won't be inclined to name the dealership, but I would love to know what company ships a £3,000 acoustic guitar without insurance cover.  That is pretty shocking and a very careless / reckless oversight.

Soupman

Name & shame the dealer. We deserve to know who to avoid.
I agree with Bill, consider legal advice.

Winny_Pooh

Pics of the flaw please.

Is the case visibly damaged? 

menamestom

I think it needs to go back to Dowina to be assessed.  They are lightly built guitars that probably need a bit more protection.

Most likely it will be fine but it’s not much to ask to be checked by the manufacturer.

Soupman

Trouble is, the manufacturer is in Slovakia. More delays due to shipping.
 

 

mgaw

Could this be via an old friend of the forum Richard’s Guitars of Stratford on Avon?

It’s well out of order what’s happening to you , £3k guitar arrives with some damage, doesn’t matter how small. Return it they don’t have a leg to stand on

Bradders

Im here to find out how this tragic tale has ended?? 

I hope a favourable resolution was found!