Advice on recording singer and acoustic guitar

robinbowes · May 2017

Hi all,

I'm currently rehearsing a duo - myself on guitar and some vocals, and a female singer.

We record all rehearsals so we can listen back and appraise performances, remember arrangements, etc. I'm currently just using the Focusrite Tape app on my iPad with the built-in iPad mic. It works, but is obviously not the best sound quality, although passable for review purposes. Also, I want to be able to balance levels a little as my guitar is a bit loud (yes, I am trying to play quieter!).

I sort of know what I'm doing - I've worked in studios before, done a lot of live engineering, and even have a degree in Electroacoustics - so I can probably come up with something, but I'd thought I'd ask for a bit of advice on here.

I have the following items at my disposal:

iPad
Focusrite iTrack Dock (for the iPad)
Macbook Pro, inc. Logic X
Presonus FireStudio firewire interface (for Mac)
Digidesign MBox 2 USB interface
2 x Presonus SD7 condensers (came with Presonus FireStudio Mobile Recording Pack)
1 x Samson C01U USB Condenser
1 x SM58
1 x SM57
Yamaha MG10/2 mixer (don't desperately want to carry this around)
Helix Rack

So, nothing particularly earth-shattering but should be solid enough. I'm not averse to buying additional kit if it makes sense, eg. a portable 4-input audio interface (so I can record vox, b.vox, guitar (piezo), guitar (mic) on separate tracks), a better quality mic for the vocals, etc.

What I want to achieve is:

record guitar + vocal together (mostly one vocal, but backing vocals on some tracks)
adjust balance between guitar + vocals
as small and portable as possible (currently, we rehearse at the singer's house so I need to take all gear there)
simple to set up & operate - the Focusrite Tape app is great: just press "record" to start, and "stop" to stop

Anyone got any thoughts?

R.

guitarfishbay · May 2017

Basically just record things to their own tracks - so singer sings into a mic and that goes on it's own track, you play guitar into a different mic, that goes into it's own track. Then you can level it later.

You can use the polar patterns of the mics to your advantage here, in order to increase separation on the tracks. This page has some nice diagrams

http://www.shure.eu/support_download/educational_content/microphones-basics/microphone_polar_patterns

The mics you have will be fine - I'd probably give the singer the SM58 and use one of the Presonus SDC's for your guitar. SM57 will work fine as a vocal mic too and you can use that for your own backing vocals. If that means you need a 4 input audio interface there are plenty that would work.

Personally I'd set up a basic Logic Template for this, but I'm not familiar with iPad recording apps.

robinbowes · May 2017

Thanks - I was thinking along those lines.

So, ideally, I need to get a (at least) 4-input audio interface. I'd like to get a good quality vocal mic too. And I need to figure out a work flow in logic so I can record stuff without thinking about it. That's just a matter of putting in the time.

Cheers,

R.

pintspiller · May 2017

You may need to reverse phasing on one track as vocal Mic will pick up guitar and rise versa

gitapik · May 2017

I've got a Rode NT-3 condenser mic that works beautifully for acoustic guitar and vox:

http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt3

Here's a recording I did with it. Nylon string. Works just as well with steel and resophonic. I like to set it slightly angled upwards instead of directly at the sound hole, but ymmv:

https://www.macjams.com/song/50139

It works very well live, as well, but is not as durable as a Shure, so it tends to stay in the studio unless the gig is at mellow place.

There is another alternative:

If you're not that interested in a fine studio recording, you can pick up one of these Zoom recorders, have a friend position it in different areas of the room while you're performing, and find the sweet spot. I'm impressed with the quality if it's just practice recordings you're looking for.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

gitapik · May 2017

I use this Rode NT-3 Condenser mic mainly for acoustic guitar and it works very well for vox (which I don't do much of). Really like it:

http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt3

Here's a cut where I angled it very slightly upward, about 8 inches from the sound hole:

https://www.macjams.com/song/50139

It's portable enough for gigs, but I use it mainly for studio because condenser mics tend to be less durable than the Shure and Sennheiser mics. I'll bring it to a gig that's in a more mellow venue, like a recital or wedding background music.

An easy alternative if you're just into a well balanced rehearsal sound is to use something like this H4 and have a friend position it in different areas of the room while you rehearse. Remember where each cut was positioned, playback, and find the sweet. I was surprised at the quality.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

gitapik · May 2017

I've got a Rode NT-3 condenser mic that works beautifully for acoustic guitar and vox:

http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt3

Here's a recording I did with it. Nylon string. Works just as well with steel and resophonic. I like to set it slightly angled upwards instead of directly at the sound hole, but ymmv:

https://www.macjams.com/song/50139

It works very well live, as well, but is not as durable as a Shure, so it tends to stay in the studio unless the gig is at mellow place.

There is another alternative:

If you're not that interested in a fine studio recording, you can pick up one of these Zoom recorders, have a friend position it in different areas of the room while you're performing, and find the sweet spot. I'm impressed with the quality if it's just practice recordings you're looking for.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

gitapik · May 2017

I use this Rode NT-3 Condenser mic mainly for acoustic guitar and it works very well for vox (which I don't do much of). Really like it:

http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt3

Here's a cut where I angled it very slightly upward, about 8 inches from the sound hole:

https://www.macjams.com/song/50139

It's portable enough for gigs, but I use it mainly for studio because condenser mics tend to be less durable than the Shure and Sennheiser mics. I'll bring it to a gig that's in a more mellow venue, like a recital or wedding background music.

An easy alternative if you're just into a well balanced rehearsal sound is to use something like this H4 and have a friend position it in different areas of the room while you rehearse. Remember where each cut was positioned, playback, and find the sweet. I was surprised at the quality.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

TimmyO · May 2017

Back in the day I used a Zoom multitrack recorder - see here https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/multi-track-recorder/r8-recorder-interface-controller-sampler - to record rehearsals (drums, bass, keys, guitar vox - drums were just done from room sound)

(I had the -16 but the -8 wasn't out back then)

The benefit was I plonked it down, after the first time knew roughly where to set input gains and hit record, and ended the night with an SD card with mutitrack recording (and spill all over the place, but like you this wasn't for 'recording' is was to use as arrangement reference and for critical ear on the performances)

Stick the SD in the laptop and it is there in whatever DAW you need.

It was light, fit in my bag that was going to rehearsal anyway.

Just a thought.

In terms of keeping gear down don't overlook the iPad:

A mini mixer with USB out, Apple Camera Connection Kit -> iPad running Cubasis (or even Mutitrack DAW - simpler and cheaper) and leave the laptop at home. Even use the free Garageband app if you only need a stereo track recorded (rather than multitrack)

Depending on the mixer you use you'll have either stereo out at USB or all the tracks separately - not sure what's what in those at the mo

TimmyO · May 2017

Doh scratch that - the R8 only has 2 ins.

The 16 has more (and come up used)

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Advice on recording singer and acoustic guitar

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