Dust Extraction for workshop - Advice on machines to look at ?

PeteC · February 2023

Hi to the folks with dust extraction !

I've been putting off installing dust extraction in my workshop for a good while now, but I think time has come.

I have a corner of the workshop ( where my drill press currently sits ) that could accommodate a sealed cupboard about 3'x2'6" and floor to ceiling about 8'.

I envisage building a simple floor to ceiling frame and making a cupboard with chipboard, having some rockwool insulation to keep the noise down, and having a main hose out to connect to.

I'd like to have a dust cab/filter/collection unit in there and rig up hoses to use at my Bench, Bandsaw, Drill press etc. Simple bag emptying would be a bonus.

Whats a good budget set up to look at - budget being c. £400-500 or so ??

cheers
Pete

Sporky · February 2023

Something with a cyclonic separator, definitely.

With that space and budget you'll still need a mask when working. Definitely worth looking used; mine was out of a commercial workshop at a fraction of the new price.

Roland · February 2023

For that budget it’s going to be hard to get high volume air movement, the type you need for planers. Last time I looked they were more than £1,500. You would be going for some type of super vacuum cleaner, with a cyclone, plus an air cleaner, plus a mask. Buying second hand, and spending around £500, I acquired:

1. Numatic dual motor industrial vacuum.
2. Plastic cyclone which sits over a plastic brewing bin.
3. Axminster air cleaner.
4. PP3 mask.

My work volume is low, just a few days a month, and I’m happy to vacuum out the bandsaw and planer every few cuts. It means that I have to wear a mask because I’m never going to capture all the dust at point of creation.

Corvus · February 2023

Hi Pete,

This is a good read for the basics, it gets into tons of detail - A guide to dust extraction by member siggy_7 | UKworkshop.co.uk

I use a chip/dust extractor for P/T & router-planer. A 2hp one around £250 from Axminster, it does the p/t no worries. With a manifold it does quite well on the pin router and binding jig. You can add fine filters to them - they don't stop very fine dust as stock.

And an ash vac hooked to a can & cyclone - better for sanders, some hand routers etc, 32mm hose or so, also used for general cleaning up.

Chip extractors loose efficiency if you step them down from say 100mm to 28mm or the like. They can go pretty cheap used if you can find one local.

randella · February 2023

Roland said:

For that budget it’s going to be hard to get high volume air movement, the type you need for planers. Last time I looked they were more than £1,500. You would be going for some type of super vacuum cleaner, with a cyclone, plus an air cleaner, plus a mask. Buying second hand, and spending around £500, I acquired:
1. Numatic dual motor industrial vacuum.
2. Plastic cyclone which sits over a plastic brewing bin.
3. Axminster air cleaner.
4. PP3 mask.

If you go down a similar route to that which @Roland suggests here (and it's a decent one) then a tiny nugget of advice. Either buy a decent, strong container for the cyclone bin, or rig something up to internally reinforce the bin.

Accidentally blocking the end of the vacuum hose and having to stop everything just to force the now-collapsed cyclone bin back into shape, for what feels like the 1,223rd time, is a complete pain in the arse.

Or so I'm led to believe.

prowla · February 2023

That line of work is for suckers!

Roland · February 2023

randella said: ... Either buy a decent, strong container for the cyclone bin, or rig something up to internally reinforce the bin...

I’ve been there too. This internal support is from 9mm ply:

Corvus · February 2023

One thing with a sealed cupboard, a chip/dust extractor shifts a load of air so that has to escape somehow - no idea if it's possible or practical, but maybe exhausting through a fine filter panel built into the cupboard would work. If fine enough filter panels or materials are out there.

GSPBASSES · February 2023

Interesting subject, trying to keep a workshop free from dust in the air, just about impossible, particularly if you’ve got a small workshop. The photo below is my workshop, I spent a small fortune on dust extraction chip collectors you name it I’ve got it and I still get a huge amount of free-floating dust.

In the foreground of the photograph is a large chip and dust extractor very expensive, clears roundabout 2000 m³ of air an hour. It’s connected to my plane of thicknessers, and absolutely nothing escapes it. It can also be connected to the bandsaw just behind it, the connection is just below the cutting blade at the front of the bandsaw and another outlet the bottom of the bandsaw, these are both 100mm outlet’s, it pretty good but dust does still escape. This chip collector cost about £400 plus another £200 for the micro dust filter on top.

At the end of the workshop is a 15-inch drum sander, that has its own dust extractor. This extractor moves roundabout 1000 m³ of air an hour. It is very good, virtually no dust escapes when I’m using the drum sander. I think this dust collector cost about £250. This is quite a good machine as it’s on wheels, and if you had the room you could easily move it around to machine to machine.

Then there is a 150mm jointer, prove to be virtually impossible to get a chip extractor connected to it. It’s just a bad design within the machine, it clogs up very quickly if a chip extractor is connected to it. I gave up and don’t bother.

Then there is a small belt sander that’s connected to Henry, which is pretty good, but I still estimate 40 odd percent of the dust escapes.

I have a small bobbin sander that is also connected to Henry. I would estimate only about half the dust is collected.

You will see on the ceiling is the general dust collector, there’s normally two of them, but when I took this photo one was having a repair done to it. According to the manufacturer, one would be an overkill for the size of my workshop, what a load of bollocks, two of them doesn’t keep the air clear of dust. These cost about £400 each. I consider that to be a waste of money now.

I have another small workshop, that’s about 8 ft.², where my pin router is. I gave up trying to collect the chippings coming from this, decided the only thing to do was to have a really good dust mask.

As far as the dust masks are concerned, most of them are total rubbish. Simple test, put your mask on, put your glasses on, lean forwards and downwards. If your classes steam up, then the mask is useless. If air can come out the top, dust can come in the top. Up to now, the only mask that I found to stop dust getting into your lungs is a 3M 4251 respirator, it’s not actually a dust mask it’s more for fumes and gas protection. I use this when I’m doing general work on the bench and sanding etc. But when I’m producing huge amounts of dust from my pin router or hand routing, I use a Axminster APF 10 Evolution Powered Respirator, this is the best bit of dust protection you can buy at a sensible price. Wish this had been around years ago, would’ve saved me a fortune, most likely my lungs as well.

All the above sounds all doom and gloom, and to be honest I’ve wasted so much money trying to get dust under control. If I was starting again building a workshop to do what I do. I will certainly keep the big chip extractors connected to the bandsaw and the planer, and a small chip extractor connected to the drum sander. I wouldn’t bother with the ceiling extractors.

I would purchase another large chip extractor with the micro dust filter with it. I would build a downdraught table with this extractor connected to it, not a particularly complicated job to do this. This will do two jobs at the same time. If you’re working on the bench hand sanding or power sanding the dust will go straight into the bench, not into the air. If you leave the extractor running, then it would keep most of the air free of dust in the workshop.

If you want to see how much free dust you have floating about your workshop, do some work in there when it’s dark, then turn the lights off and shine a torch beam across the workshop and you’ll most likely see it looks like it’s snowing with dust.

Danielsguitars · February 2023

I've just bought a trend p3 dust mask which so far I'm bloody impressed with, it doesn't steam my glasses up so I know I'm sealed all the way around, it's comfortable too, that's a good investment imo, the filters last 28 days apparently.

GSPBASSES · February 2023

If you fancy building your own downdraught table here's a link to several types that you can build yourself.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/663295851371657476/

Strumit · February 2023

Great to see this happening. I got chronic asthma and rhinitis from working with wood machinery. I also have severe wood dust allergy now too, which is how they discovered my other problems. Don't forget, if you are "hoovering" to use one with the correct filter and always "wet sweep" by using a liquid spray to kill the airborne dust moved by the sweeper. Read up on hardwood and MDF dust before you use it and as you Dad used to say, "Take Precautions!"

rexter · February 2023

Loads of good wisdom in the thread, dust can really kill the enjoyment of woodworking. I had a very similar setup to @GSPBASSES with a huge cartridge filter extractor, various vacuums and air cleaners etc but still had a really irritated, sore throat and coughing after even mild work. Surprising how much fine dust even hand tools like rasps and files and even hand sanding create!

It gets triggered when I go into friends’ workshops now even just for 10 minutes, don’t know how then can walk around all day in there often without masks.

The one ultimate success in dust extraction I had though - and it completely transformed my workflow for paintwork too - was using Mirka sanders (and the very slightly cheaper Metabo sxe) and a good extractor. Honestly next to no dust escaping and so powerful.

My dewalt sander went straight into the cupboard and then eBay after not being used for a year. They are pricey compared to regular sanders but so effective at getting the really fine and extra horrible dust out of the air. Also they get the job done so much quicker and are quieter.

Danielsguitars · February 2023

rexter said:

Loads of good wisdom in the thread, dust can really kill the enjoyment of woodworking. I had a very similar setup to @GSPBASSES with a huge cartridge filter extractor, various vacuums and air cleaners etc but still had a really irritated, sore throat and coughing after even mild work. Surprising how much fine dust even hand tools like rasps and files and even hand sanding create!

It gets triggered when I go into friends’ workshops now even just for 10 minutes, don’t know how then can walk around all day in there often without masks.

The one ultimate success in dust extraction I had though - and it completely transformed my workflow for paintwork too - was using Mirka sanders (and the very slightly cheaper Metabo sxe) and a good extractor. Honestly next to no dust escaping and so powerful.

My dewalt sander went straight into the cupboard and then eBay after not being used for a year. They are pricey compared to regular sanders but so effective at getting the really fine and extra horrible dust out of the air. Also they get the job done so much quicker and are quieter.

Have you got a link so I know which one you used.

Always interesting to hear what others use.

rexter · February 2023

Danielsguitars said:

rexter said:

Loads of good wisdom in the thread, dust can really kill the enjoyment of woodworking. I had a very similar setup to @GSPBASSES with a huge cartridge filter extractor, various vacuums and air cleaners etc but still had a really irritated, sore throat and coughing after even mild work. Surprising how much fine dust even hand tools like rasps and files and even hand sanding create!

It gets triggered when I go into friends’ workshops now even just for 10 minutes, don’t know how then can walk around all day in there often without masks.

The one ultimate success in dust extraction I had though - and it completely transformed my workflow for paintwork too - was using Mirka sanders (and the very slightly cheaper Metabo sxe) and a good extractor. Honestly next to no dust escaping and so powerful.

My dewalt sander went straight into the cupboard and then eBay after not being used for a year. They are pricey compared to regular sanders but so effective at getting the really fine and extra horrible dust out of the air. Also they get the job done so much quicker and are quieter.

Have you got a link so I know which one you used.

Always interesting to hear what others use.

The metabo sander - made by Mirka just with different branding

https://www.machinery4wood.co.uk/Metabo-SXE-150-50-BL-Random-Orbital-Sander-615050380/P30711/froogle?gclid=CjwKCAiA_6yfBhBNEiwAkmXy56c_b1W5mQeaRAAYZes-ANJV7LCO0yCp4w8OpYeAH_DKOSqfrDk-JBoCnLUQAvD_BwE

and I used a Mirka 2.5mm orbit for paint work - incredible - would have quite four years ago if I'd had to keep on wetsanding by hand!

http://https//www.mirka.com/en/p/Mirka-DEROS-625CV-EU-150---2-5

i got them before the prices went up, but even now i'd say completely worth it.

Used a Camvac extractor with them and virtually no dust gets out. Held off on getting one for years because of the price but I'd never go back now. I've kept the Metabo but sold the Mirka to my assistant who was obsessed with it

guitargeek62 · February 2023

Fixed your links:

https://www.machinery4wood.co.uk/product.php/webpid/30711/site/froogle/gclid/CjwKCAiA_6yfBhBNEiwAkmXy56c_b1W5mQeaRAAYZes-ANJV7LCO0yCp4w8OpYeAH_DKOSqfrDk-JBoCnLUQAvD_BwE

https://www.mirka.com/en/p/Mirka-DEROS-625CV-EU-150---2-5

PeteC · February 2023

thanks for the great advice everyone. Lots for me to consider. I am about to sell a couple of guitars, so hopefully I will be able to fund better kit than I originally planned.

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Dust Extraction for workshop - Advice on machines to look at ?

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