Silk and Steel Strings

thecolourbox · May 1

Hi all,

I've used Martin Silk & Steel strings for a while now, 11.5-47 gauge. I don't like bright clangy acoustic sounds, I prefer a deader warmer tone in general. I like the acoustic guitar sounds of Simon & Garfunkel, Bert Jansch, Laura Marling, and this type of strings seems to do that for the most part. They are easier to play than other types, quieter, and this particular brand seems cheaper than others. I used to get D'Addario ones but I found they didn't last very long - the Martin ones tend to last me a good 6 months.

However I played an open mic recently and when I unpacked the guitar in what was a very warm cafe, it seemed to be quite a bit out of tune. I was playing with capo on 3rd 4th or 5th frets and was tuned to 432 hz which is my favoured pitch when accompanying myself, however was a bit cringey to explain to the host why I couldn't just use their Boss tuner. I wondered if the light gauge of strings might be to blame for being out of tune, I've used the same guitar and usually the same strings elsewhere without a problem but this place was particularly warm. Guitar is nothing special, in fact it's the exact opposite, it's a Taylor Big Baby.

I also find that the signal through my pickup is a bit weedy and sounds a bit flimsy when amplified, so thought...hey you know what, let's try some normal strings in a normal gauge and see if that's any better. I use fairly heavy strings on my Mustang (i forget which, I think 10-52 Skinny top Heavy bottom) so I thought I would handle it - I was wrong

it hurts and they are loud, clangy, and very loud scratchy noises when I move around. They are Ernie Ball Earthwood 13-56 Phosphor bronze.

I have some singing gigs later in the year where I shall be required to make an acoustic sound to accompany myself, so would like to get a good setup once I know my strings choice. I may yet just choose to use my Thinline Tele with an acoustic IR and some clean electric amp blended in, but that's another question

But my question here is - are other brands of Silk and Steel worth a punt, if so which brands? Seem to be amn Earthwood version which are 80/20 bronze, D'addario do some, a brand I've never heard of called Karuna. I can't seem to see heavier gauges of Silk & Steel on Amazon, so are there any others that do a similar job in being easier to play, sound quite dead etc?

guitars4you · May 1

WBA ( was badly advised) - I brought a set for a new acoustic that I’d only just purchased - In part as I wanted a lower tension feel,but still 12’s and in part as I might like a softer tone - 30 mins later I took them off as I just couldn’t find any thing positive about them - I'm sure they were Martin - But now gone back to Phos Bronze and still 12 gauge - Just instantly sounded and felt alien to me

So sorry I can’t really help but I know silk n steel are not the answer for me - Have some Newtone low tension sets on order (again 12 gauge) and will give them a whirl

guitars4you · May 1

When you amplified the acoustic with silk n steel strings was this via a magnetic sound hole pick up or a piezo style (probably under saddle) - It should be fine via a piezo pick up but with the silk windings as part of the wound strings it won’t be as effective with a sound hole magnetic pick up

Soupman · May 2

@Tannin has a whole list of personal string preferences, and he even did a 'squeal score' of sorts for them. Do a search on here.
Some squeal more than others but coated strings seem to give less squeal, although they do have a 'soapy' feel. Marmite choice.
Personally I like Elixir 12s and their coating (partly 'cause I hate changing strings).....

thecolourbox · May 2

guitars4you said:

WBA ( was badly advised) - I brought a set for a new acoustic that I’d only just purchased - In part as I wanted a lower tension feel,but still 12’s and in part as I might like a softer tone - 30 mins later I took them off as I just couldn’t find any thing positive about them - I'm sure they were Martin - But now gone back to Phos Bronze and still 12 gauge - Just instantly sounded and felt alien to me

So sorry I can’t really help but I know silk n steel are not the answer for me - Have some Newtone low tension sets on order (again 12 gauge) and will give them a whirl

I can see why they wouldn't be for everyone, in the same way that I don't really like the sound of the "normal" strings that normal people use. They seem to suit my playing as I'm not a strummer and have a quite light touch. I also never use apick, don't like the sound on acoustic. However I'm willing to concede they may not be the best strings in a live scenario, mostly sounds nice for my own benefit when playing at home I guess, I like the sound in to my mic as well, but I'm by no means an acoustic player or very knowledgeable on how to make nice sounds on them. Here's an example

Interestingly I've been playing it this morning with the clangy bronze ones and with a capo they are more tolerable. Capo on 3rd fret was a bit better, capo on 5th fret much better. The action seems significantly better with the capo on so maybe that's more where I need to look. It's not just the shorter scale I don't think, the strings are definitely lower with the capo on. Would a good set up be able to do that action level without a capo perhaps?

guitars4you said:

When you amplified the acoustic with silk n steel strings was this via a magnetic sound hole pick up or a piezo style (probably under saddle) - It should be fine via a piezo pick up but with the silk windings as part of the wound strings it won’t be as effective with a sound hole magnetic pick up

Yes it was a soundhole magnetic one, that's exactly what I thought might be the case with the wound ones, and probably why guitar always sounds a bit trebly through a pickup I suppose

thecolourbox · May 2

guitars4you said:

WBA ( was badly advised)

Also, this is hilarious considering my unfortunate footballing allegiances

menamestom · May 2

Some thoughts......

Get a headstock tuner, which can calibrate at 432hz
Seems a slightly strange move, from light S&S, to guage 13 PB's, at least 12's would have made a bit more sense!
PB's don't stay quite as bright and clangy when they are played in
PB's wrap is not magnetic. Like the S&S, you are only picking up the core wuth your sound hole pickup.
You could try Silk and Bronze as a happy mid point between S&S and PB.
I've not tried any of these, but the nickel wound string options may be more subdued but offer good output. I will try D'addario NB's strings at some point.

This might be worth a read also.

What acoustic strings are best for a magnetic soundhole pickup? - Strings Direct

thecolourbox · May 2

menamestom said:

Some thoughts......

Get a headstock tuner, which can calibrate at 432hz
Seems a slightly strange move, from light S&S, to guage 13 PB's, at least 12's would have made a bit more sense!
PB's don't stay quite as bright and clangy when they are played in
PB's wrap is not magnetic. Like the S&S, you are only picking up the core wuth your sound hole pickup.
You could try Silk and Bronze as a happy mid point between S&S and PB.
I've not tried any of these, but the nickel wound string options may be more subdued but offer good output. I will try D'addario NB's strings at some point.

This might be worth a read also.

What acoustic strings are best for a magnetic soundhole pickup? - Strings Direct

Thanks mate. I do have a headstock tuner but the battery had been half inched for the kitchen scales. I don't normally need it however as I tune to ear (which is where the 432hz thing originated actually, I found when I tuned things by ear then checked how far out I was, I was normally not far off on 432hz tuning and I like the relaxed sound).

Yes it was possibly a bit of a jump but I think in my head I was thinking to go for the upper limit of the things I thought would solve it my query because if it worked I for the sound/tuning I could always compromise somewhere in the middle to make it easier to play.

I'll look into the nickel wound thing, as I guess that will feel more familiar from my (much more frequent) electric playing and could presumably enable me to switch between acoustic and my thinline Tele which is my other potential plan for this purpose, ie not use the acoustic at all other than as a backup

victorludorum · May 2

It sounds like you might be better off with a nylon string guitar. Have you ever tried one?

thecolourbox · May 2

Soupman said:

@Tannin has a whole list of personal string preferences, and he even did a 'squeal score' of sorts for them. Do a search on here.
Some squeal more than others but coated strings seem to give less squeal, although they do have a 'soapy' feel. Marmite choice.
Personally I like Elixir 12s and their coating (partly 'cause I hate changing strings).....

Thanks, I did seek about that list and blimey. what a detailed analysis of it all, a lot to take in. I must admit to knowing nothing about what's what in the acoustic world, where strings seem more important than on electrics. I seem to be able to whack anything on my electrics and it's fine, just they last different amounts of time etc.

Am i right in assuming the "squeal" is the string-scrape noise I was on about?

thecolourbox · May 2

victorludorum said:

It sounds like you might be better off with a nylon string guitar. Have you ever tried one?

Only really very cheap and nasty ones, I recall I struggled with the big wide flat fretboard and tuning always seemed slightly off, It does when I listen to demos of better ones as well to be fair. I don't have perfect pitch but have pretty good relative pitch so I always find listening to the kind of stuff I like on nylon strung guitars to be uncomfortable due to the slight out of tune sound I seem to pick up on. The other problem with adding another new instrument to my ranks is I'd need to sell this one, and I don't think I can handle the drag of that for a guitar that' essentially worth very little, and that i could regret selling afterwards if the replacement doesn't work out!

I like the Tim Henson one in concept, and the cheaper one that's quite similar but looks nicer, but again that out of tune sound bugs me a bit. I assume they are more akin to the fretboards I'm used to though.

victorludorum · May 2

This 'selling an instrument to buy another one' that you speak of, what do you mean? Are you sure you're on the right forum here? ;-)

thecolourbox · May 2

victorludorum said:

This 'selling an instrument to buy another one' that you speak of, what do you mean? Are you sure you're on the right forum here? ;-)

ha, well yes quite.

victorludorum · May 2

I've always used 12s on my acoustic guitars and have never varied much in terms of brand. I prefer my strings when they are very worn in; I don't like the bright, clear sound that you get when they're new and I think this might be exacerbated on my particular guitar. I would have thought a sound hole pickup would sound woodier than a piezo, but I've never had one as I'm happy with my K and K system, and remember that an EQ pedal is always a good friend. Playing closer to the neck will soften things up too.

Tannin · May 2

thecolourbox said:

Am i right in assuming the "squeal" is the string-scrape noise I was on about?

Exactly. And it seems to be a particular issue with silk & steel strings. Some are pretty OK (GHS & John Pearse - both silk & bronze, though I don't know if that is significant), while others are downright blackboard nails. The La Bella Gypsy Jazz strings I have on my little Mineur right now are shockers! They do seem to be mellowing down a bit now that they have been on a fair while, but to start with they had probably the loudest squeal I've ever heard.

Anything with a silver coating seems to have a lot of squeal too. My surmise - both for silver-coated strings and for various other types - is that squeal is caused by the texture of the string surface - both the gross texture (fat winding wire (e.g. Ernie Ball phosphor bronze) squeals more than skinny winding wire (e.g. D'Addario Nickel Bronze) and the micro texture (some strings, including all the silver coated ones I know but also many others, have a slightly rough, grippy texture under the left hand, while others are more slick-textured).

There is nothing you can do about the gross texture, obviously (other than buy some different strings), but the micro texture changes as the strings wear in and your fingers polish them. The trouble with that is they tend to be worn out and dead before the texture wears off enough to stop the squeal.

What you CAN do is polish them yourself. Get one of those rubber nail buffer things people use to put a fine buff on their fingernails from the chemist. It will cost about a pound and seems to do the trick very nicely. You only need to buff the top of the strings (this is the only part your fingers touch, obviously) and it only takes a couple of minutes. It makes a substantial difference to micro-texture squeal and doesn't seem to impact tone much.

Or, of course, you can do it the proper way, which is to improve your sloppy left hand technique. (Do as I say, not as I do!)

guitars4you · May 3

thecolourbox said:

guitars4you said:

When you amplified the acoustic with silk n steel strings was this via a magnetic sound hole pick up or a piezo style (probably under saddle) - It should be fine via a piezo pick up but with the silk windings as part of the wound strings it won’t be as effective with a sound hole magnetic pick up

Yes it was a soundhole magnetic one, that's exactly what I thought might be the case with the wound ones, and probably why guitar always sounds a bit trebly through a pickup I suppose

It would work better with a piezo format, as here the pick up works by picking up the wood vibrations, so not about a magnetic relationship - Under saddle format better, but not always easy to fit + appropriate preamp/eq, so might be a job for a guitar tech

guitarjack66 · May 3

How would you remove or severely lessen that string squeak? I get it on everything and with various string brands.

menamestom · May 3

Dadario flat tops might help. Or these:-

Silencer Golden Bronze 80/20 Acoustic Guitar Strings - S.I.T. Strings (sitstrings.com)

I've not tried either thought.

Also for live a preamp with a notch filter may help.

Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI Preamp at Gear4music

Soupman · May 3

@guitarjack66 said:

How would you remove or severely lessen that string squeak? I get it on everything and with various string brands.

Fit Elixir nano coated strings!
I use these all the time, but recently fitted some Everlux coated phos-bronze strings from Headway (based in Oxford) as they were £12 (- a good saving against Elixirs).

Everlux blurb states they are UK voiced, USA materials, made in China. So covering all bets then

They are good strings, warm, well balanced & loud. On first fitting them I found the bottom E and A strings felt like a rasp under my fingers - very coarse. Also noticeably more squeal then Elixirs. So had to adjust technique a little to lift fingers off when moving up & down the board.
Used to them now, like them but will probably go back to Elixirs.

thecolourbox · May 3

victorludorum said:

and remember that an EQ pedal is always a good friend. Playing closer to the neck will soften things up too.

I'm intending to use my HX Effects for my bookings, i'm messing about with some presets and IRs in my cover/composition challenge entries to hopefully get a suitable sound but have come to the conclusion i can't just rely on that alone - the last couple of covers I've submitted the acoustic sounds ok in context but not great, and definitely not great in isolation. I do need to try some recording with these new thick strings before I switch back to something manageable though to see if they sound better in that signal chain.

I do try to play nearer to the neck but i think my body positioning tends towards moving further towards the bridge when I'm playing with a capo

Tannin · May 3

guitarjack66 said:

How would you remove or severely lessen that string squeak? I get it on everything and with various string brands.

1: It is essentially a technique thing. Simply, play cleaner. With practice you can reduce it enormously. But of course that takes work and practice and concentration. Where's the fun in that?

2: Use strings which squeak less than other strings. Flats do not squeak at all. Zero. None. Zippo. Double-wound strings don't squeak much; heavily coated strings (e.g., Elixirs) don't either, although they feel as though you are playing with condoms on your fingers. Normal, everyday strings (not flats or coated or anything) vary a lot. Some brands squeal far more than others.

3: see para 4 of my earlier post.

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