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I have been struggling to get enough body from my guitar sound at function gigs. It sounds great in my in-ears and also standing next to the amp so its not the mic placement or the amp sound itself but something to do with the way the sound is dispersing and mixing in with the band and PA sound. Its an open back 2x10 combo (Fender Prosonic) so my initial thought is to try adding a 4x12 underneath although this is a big logistical PITA.
I've compensated by boosting the bass frequencies rather than cutting them in the PA but as these are smallish venues the sound off the stage is more dominant than the PA so it would be better to get that going.
Any ideas?
I raise the amp on its flightcase - would you think being on the floor would be better? Or angle the amp to the side of stage?
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Closed back cabs are better in this regard though they are more directional.
A 2x10 is always going to be more midrangey than a bigger 2x12/closed back cab, but also consider whether you really need more bass or you could compensate by turning down, letting the PA do more of the work, or EQing out some top end so the tone gets subjectively thicker.
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Good advice Cirrus. Turning down and boosting the PA sound is the best short term solution for sure. But the bass player will complain that he can't hear me on stage then as he is the only one not on in ears - and is resolutely going to stay that way!
I didn't know open back cabs were so suseptible to this - have a wisedom!
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Thanks ICBM,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Good to know that being on the floor won’t help either. I’ll definitely try the reduction of treble on the amp – the EQ controls aren’t massively powerful – they’re cut only I think.
Sounds like adding a 4x12 or 2x12 underneath is the way to go. I did a few gig with a Fender Supersonic half stack earlier this year and it did sound much fuller….no difference in the in ears but better out front. I may even start using my Orange OR120 head with the 4x12 and leave the combo at home….
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Good news about V30s – the Fender 4x12 has those and I also have an Orange 2x12 V30 loaded. I’ll try them when I get more space in the van when the drummer goes back to driving himself to gigs! I’d rather get it right on stage for these small functions as opposed to hyping the low end unnaturally in the PA.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
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Thanks you guys -
Roland – Its tempting to lose the backline but I like having a clean tube amp being driven by pedals so going direct is a step to far for me at the moment!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Can I ask you all, what would you choose to gig with if you were me in this situation (i.e. playing functions for 100 odd people with a QSC K series PA (12s and a Sub) from the list below:
Heads:
- Fender Supersonic 100W
- Orange OR120
- Vox Night Train 15W
- Mesa Triaxis and Simulclass rack 2x90W
- Marshall JMP1 and 9100 rack 2x50W
- Marshall JMP 1987x 50W
Continued:
Cabs:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
- Fender 4x12 straight or angled with V30s
- Marshall Straight 4x12 with Greenbacks
- Marshall Angled 4x12 with G75s
- Orange 2x12 with V30s
- Mesa 1x12 with Black Shadow – ¾ closed back
- Marshall 1912 – fully closed back
Combos:
- Fender Prosonic (30W in Class A mode)
- Vox AC30 CC with Blue Celestions
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
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Spotify, Apple et al
ICMB – all of them would be immense! How many ground loops would you have to break though?! Music style is the rock end of covers standards like Sweet Child o Mine, Living on a Prayer as well as the mandatory Killers and KOL. The 80s rock is what really needs the chunk! The Prosonic in Class A is a very sweet sound so yeah I’d like to keep that in the rig if possible – so maybe that with the Orange 2x12<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
ESBlonde – my problem with the 1987x is that I get all my sounds from pedals and to get a clean sound you have to use your guitar volume so it kinda only works in the set up you describe, which isn’t mine – I have a stupid big pedal setup – the kind of laughably stupid type…
Cirrus – The AC30 is a great sound – I should try it with the 4x12 – would be difficult to get into some venues though!
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I use a 20W valve amp, coupled with 2 stacked 1x12 open-backed cabs.
I can get all the bass thud, chunk, bottom end, whatever you want to call it from that. In fact my biggest problem has always been keeping it down. All the drive pedals I use have to have bass controls for that reason, as it can get too much, especially in a function band.