Martin D18 or 000-18

BigLicks67

ICBM said:

Or alternatively you could end up with both… I didn't mean to buy a Gibson dreadnought *and* a Gibson orchestra-size, it just somehow happened .

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

ICBM

Lewy said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant).  Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Although the HD35 is a special case when it comes to whumpitude (scalloped 1/4" bracing on a dread top is just a step too far imo).

And a three-piece back, which is looser-sounding than a two-piece. For me the D35 body is best as a 12-string… which is why I have one .

D-18s and even D-28s are less whumpy - the 18 is quite punchy and midrangy, although obviously still less so than a 000.

BigLicks67 said:

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

And also sits somewhere between the Martin D and 000 in terms of voicing. The difficulty - with all Gibsons - is finding a good one, or even knowing if the one you're trying is a good one or not, if you haven't already played some.

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

Lewy

VimFuego said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant).  Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Swapped my HD35 for a similarly specced 000 - (he wanted more oomph. I wanted less - win:win !

odd you thought that. I only played it once but I seem to recall thnking your HD35 was a pretty well balanced guitar.

They start that way- then once they open up, Whumpsville Alabama.Which of course can be very desirable for certain uses. Perfect for a self-accompanying singer songwriter using lighter strings I'd say.

Jalapeno

Lewy said:

Whumpsville Alabama

Lewy

ICBM said:

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

Mine is a '57 SJ. There's some comfort in that I got back what I paid for it in when I traded it in (had joined a serious bluegrass band and needed a proper dread), but that guitar would be absolutely perfect for how I like to play now and I wouldn't get one for anywhere near the same money now.

Good Gibsons....thankfully so rare that few people have to know what it's like to have one get away from you....

artiebear

ICBM said:

Lewy said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant).  Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Although the HD35 is a special case when it comes to whumpitude (scalloped 1/4" bracing on a dread top is just a step too far imo).

And a three-piece back, which is looser-sounding than a two-piece. For me the D35 body is best as a 12-string… which is why I have one .

D-18s and even D-28s are less whumpy - the 18 is quite punchy and midrangy, although obviously still less so than a 000.

BigLicks67 said:

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

And also sits somewhere between the Martin D and 000 in terms of voicing. The difficulty - with all Gibsons - is finding a good one, or even knowing if the one you're trying is a good one or not, if you haven't already played some.

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

I know just how that feels. A few years ago I sold my old J45 to a good friend who loved it and as far as i Know is still recording and touring with it. I've tried a few modern ones, some of which were very good but very different from that one.

As far as the OP's search is concerned a great J45 would be a very good shout, a great picker and strummer with that lovely dry low end thump. That being said, the current 18 series Martins are very good value, especially since Martin revised them in the last few years to give a 1 3/4 nut width which makes them a little better for some as a pickers guitar. Add to that nice dark ebony boards and bridges with the toroishell scratch plate and they look the business , classic Martin. I think ICBM has it right in terms of a broad accessible description of the difference between a D and the 000. The shorter scale allows for a little more flexibility and snap while the D is more strident. Personally, I really like the dry immediacy of mahogany along with the short scale for finger picking.

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@AliGorie I don't get people who moan about music or musicians, if you don't like it, don't listen, which I'm sure you don't, but it's strange to me to hear anyone feel the need to bash a decent hard working musician, no matter their taste in music.

Well said. Anyone who is making a living making music, whether selling out the RHA for umpteen nights or working hard on a local scene is worthy of respect, especially from other musicians, who at least should have an inkling what it takes to be there. Anything else comes across as nothing but bitter and twisted. Sure we don't have to like everything and there is a place to discuss our preferences but why go out of your way to do it ?

AliGorie

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thanks, guys, I love the fullness of sound on both. I love big chords and open chords. But I'm learning to do a lot more picking and single note arpeggio stuff. Fingerstyle is another ball game and I'm rubbish at it, be nice to have the option., though I imagine fingerstyle wouldn't be difficult with either of them. My heart says get the D18 for the big sound, but my head really, really likes the 000-18...like you, I'll be playing it around the house a lot more than taking it out.

I have the solution to u'r dilemma Jonny - ya need one of these - a J-OM or Grand - OM - what ever they want to call it - I haven't seen them mentioned on this topic. Basically a deep bodied - Dread depth 4 7/8 ths OM / 000
What ya get is a bottom / mid-range end (sound) that can go down to B's and C's tuning wise but maintaining definition and balance along with a meaty treble end for lead line stuff - u'r ideal.
mine is a Bourgeois J-OM 1999 sent to the Frankfurt music fair, it didn't make it back to the states I pounced on it.
mine is similar to this design but with East Indian R/Wood b/s, Bolivian Rosewood  f/board & bridge.

https://eddiesguitars.com/bourgeois-jom-banjo-killer-7461


how it sounds picked 'n strummed (please forgive the sound quality noise) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdGXIRSibo

AliGorie

hey J, forgot to say - Lowden 'F' model would also fit u'r needs -
Lower Bought - 15 5/8" (398mm)
Soundbox Depth - 4 3/4" (120mm)
good for plectrum, strummed - or fingers

lotsa - well everything in a manageable size - just realized some makers call these kinda body sizes - 'Small Jumbo', for future reference.

crunchman

artiebear said:  
That being said, the current 18 series Martins are very good value, especially since Martin revised them in the last few years to give a 1 3/4 nut width which makes them a little better for some as a pickers guitar. Add to that nice dark ebony boards and bridges with the toroishell scratch plate and they look the business , classic Martin. I think ICBM has it right in terms of a broad accessible description of the difference between a D and the 000. The shorter scale allows for a little more flexibility and snap while the D is more strident. Personally, I really like the dry immediacy of mahogany along with the short scale for finger picking.

The more important part of the recent changes is the change to the bracing in 2012 to the pre-far style "forward-shifted" bracing.  It makes any Martin Dread sound a lot more balanced.