Fly Rig 5 into clean amp settings

Blueingreen

EricTheWeary said:

Blueingreen said:

mellowsun said:

Wouldn't it be better to run the fly rig straight into the PA or is that not an option?

I don't have to use the FR5, I can take an amp and pedals, but it's a jazz/swing gig where I won't be using a big variety of sounds so the simplicity of the FR was appealing.  But most of the band will be reading the dots, rehearsal time will be minimal, and I won't get much chance to experiment with sounds.

I think the whole point of the Bass 0, Treble 0, Mid 10 settings is to give a neutral base so the pre-amp on the Sansamp piggybacks on the amp with the least possible "interference" from the amp's own pre-amp.  I assume that's different from finding the best base tone for a more orthodox pedal - in fact I'd imagine those setting would sound pretty bad if you were just using ordinary pedals.

If you look at the video @bingefeller posted that's about finding the flattest tone from which you can then tweak to taste, or use the FR to tweak in this case. 

Yeah I had a look at that (and a couple of other videos demonstrating the same concept).  But without claiming to know much about this that looks to me like a different concept: Thorn is taking the amp's own pre-amp out of the equation so it can be replaced by the Sansamp, while the guy here is getting the optimal clean sound out of the amp's pre-amp so effects can be added of little eq tweaks can be made.  To put it another way, it doesn't matter if the 0/10/0 setting Thorn is using would sound shit on its own, because the pre-amp is being replaced by the Sansamp;  whereas the guy in bingfeller's video is looking for a setting that gives a good-sounding clean tone.

gibsongretschfan

Blueingreen said:

EricTheWeary said:

Blueingreen said:

mellowsun said:

Wouldn't it be better to run the fly rig straight into the PA or is that not an option?

I don't have to use the FR5, I can take an amp and pedals, but it's a jazz/swing gig where I won't be using a big variety of sounds so the simplicity of the FR was appealing.  But most of the band will be reading the dots, rehearsal time will be minimal, and I won't get much chance to experiment with sounds.

I think the whole point of the Bass 0, Treble 0, Mid 10 settings is to give a neutral base so the pre-amp on the Sansamp piggybacks on the amp with the least possible "interference" from the amp's own pre-amp.  I assume that's different from finding the best base tone for a more orthodox pedal - in fact I'd imagine those setting would sound pretty bad if you were just using ordinary pedals.

If you look at the video @bingefeller posted that's about finding the flattest tone from which you can then tweak to taste, or use the FR to tweak in this case. 

Yeah I had a look at that (and a couple of other videos demonstrating the same concept).  But without claiming to know much about this that looks to me like a different concept: Thorn is taking the amp's own pre-amp out of the equation so it can be replaced by the Sansamp, while the guy here is getting the optimal clean sound out of the amp's pre-amp so effects can be added of little eq tweaks can be made.  To put it another way, it doesn't matter if the 0/10/0 setting Thorn is using would sound shit on its own, because the pre-amp is being replaced by the Sansamp;  whereas the guy in bingfeller's video is looking for a setting that gives a good-sounding clean tone.

I dunno, I was always taught that the way in the video was how to truely set an amp flat and that was by guys who were on Thorns level career wise

Ive played jazz gigs and swing vand gigs using the FR5 in a Roland Keyboard amp and it worked great with the amp and the Fly Rig all set to noon and a touch of bass rolled of if you're using a hollowbody

lile i said earlier some amps don't pass signal at all if you set bass at 0 etc so it cant be a one size fits all soloution 

Blueingreen

I still think it's two different things.  If you're setting the tone control where there's a noticeable kicking-in of its effect, that's never going to be at zero and never going to be at 10.  So while I don't doubt your point that it can't be one size fits all, that method is never going to give you 0/10/0 on any amp.  If 0/10/0 is the right answer for ANY amp, then the question that's being asked must be different from the one bingefeller's guy is addressing.  And I can only think that's to do with the difference between using the amp's own preamp as a clean base and effectively taking out the pre-amp so you can use a different one.

gibsongretschfan

Blueingreen said:

I still think it's two different things.  If you're setting the tone control where there's a noticeable kicking-in of its effect, that's never going to be at zero and never going to be at 10.  So while I don't doubt your point that it can't be one size fits all, that method is never going to give you 0/10/0 on any amp.  If 0/10/0 is the right answer for ANY amp, then the question that's being asked must be different from the one bingefeller's guy is addressing.  And I can only think that's to do with the difference between using the amp's own preamp as a clean base and effectively taking out the pre-amp so you can use a different one.

Your assuming the eq is active and can actually boost frequencies as well as attenuate 

either way I've still to come across an amp that the 0-10-0 settings worked with FR5 in my experience 

it's also hard to get an unusable sound out of one so I'm sure it won't be much hassle. Enjoy

Blueingreen

Thanks, GGF, very much appreciate your input and good wishes.

bingefeller

Blueingreen, you could email Pete and ask him about this.  I've emailed him a few times in the past and he was very helpful and forthcoming.  

impmann

TBH, I used my FR5 all the time into a PA and just leave the EQ controls on the channel strip at noon (centre detent - cut or boost) and use my ears to make it sound the way I want it to using the tone controls on the "amp" section.

I've used it into the front end of the Hot Rod Deluxe once, but realistically didn't notice any discernable improvement over the pre-amp of the amp. I just used the distortion, boost and delay with the "amp" section in bypass.

I'd also venture that this 0-10-0 set up wouldn't work with an amp that has a tone stack that attenuates. If you turn the treble and bass controls down to zero leaving the mid control all the way up, you'd have a pretty horrid sound that would be lower in volume output - turn the mid control down and you'd get nothing from the speakers!

Blanket EQ settings for "every" scenario are pretty dumb IMHO - use your own ears. Every room can be different, so how can one EQ setting be 'right'?

Blueingreen

I think everyone agrees that there's no one size fits all solution and that ultimately YOU have to decide whether the sound you're getting is the one you want.  But Thorn/Tech 21 wouldn't be offering this as a starting point unless they thought players would find it useful.  Thorn obviously thinks the advice is valuable and the sounds he gets on the demo video using the 0/10/0 setting on his amp are superb, the best I've heard anyone sound with the unit.

Bingefeller interesting that Thorn is willing to respond to emails, but he's stated his opinion on the video and I'd feel a bit cheeky asking him if he stands by it.  I wonder if he ever checks out the forum though?  He might be willing to chip in, maybe a bit unlikely but you never know....

jeztone2

I used to gig a Sansamp Tri AC as a backup. Have you thought about running out from the Flyrig into the Amps FX return & just using the power amp stage? You might find that's better.

Blueingreen

I used to run the Flyrig into a ZT Club, trying to set flat, and liked the sound.  I also tried running it into the FX return, which didn't sound nearly as good.  I never understood why - in theory just using the power amp stage with the Sansamp as preamp should have been better (and some people had reported using it that way with good results) but I couldn't get it to work for me.  A different amp might be a different story of course, but it's left me with a sense that just using the FR into the power stage of an amp won't always give good results.